This may not be the right thread for it, but there was some good discussion happening here about batteries/electric grid/clean energy storage. This (bare bones) article came out today from my local NPR station about new cheap battery technology. From the article:
After four years of stealth R&D, Somerville-based Form Energy has emerged with what could be a breakthrough energy storage technology, based on rust.
Form Energy president and COO Ted Wiley says the company has produced hundreds of working prototypes of an iron-air-exchange battery that can store large amounts of energy for several days.
“We’ve completed the science,” says Wiley, “what’s left to do is scale up from lab-scale protoypes to grid-scale power plants. “
In full production, “the modules will produce electricity for one-tenth the cost of any technology available today for grid storage," Wiley says.
If the plan comes to fruition, Form Energy’s batteries could realize what’s called "the renewable energy Holy Grail” — relatively inexpensive, reliable grid-scale energy storage. Because solar and wind do not generate power when the sun is down or the wind isn’t blowing, storing their power for down times is the key to clean energy reliability.
Have any of you knowledgeable people heard of “iron-air-exchange” batteries before? The article makes it sound pretty promising, but it also reads like a press release, so my skepticism is flaring.
No, but there have been several ‘promising’ technologies that promised similar reduction in cost and improvement in performance IF they could be scaled up. And that’s a major qualifier.
I know this company and technology from about two years back. It’s solid technogy, but it won’t do much for EVs other than as a general grid improvement. It’s for longer-duration grid storage, where lithium ion isn’t competitive. I’m happy to discuss further, but this may not be the place for it.
For EVs, power density and energy density are important. For grid storage, it’s mostly about cost.
Yes, but there was a whole discussion upthread about EV usage effects on the general grid and the storage problems of wind/solar. So I thought it might fit here. I’d like to hear your thoughts, if you’re willing.
Without any demand management, vehicle charging can cause spikes in demand, regardless of generation source. With demand management, they can actual help smooth out renewables. Lithium ion grid storage is (currently) good for ~4h. Form Energy’s iron air batteries take days to charge or discharge. So actually not all that great for dealing with everyone coming home and plugging in all at once. But good for a cold snap or heat wave that strain generating capacity.
On a related note, Tesla started a beta program for their “virtual power plant” in California:
This is for their Powerwall batteries, not vehicles, but it’s plausible that vehicles will be supported eventually (though probably only future models). Right now, customers aren’t paid for participating, so it’s a sort of societal good thing, but it seems likely that there will be some incentive program eventually.
Thanks for responding. Do you imagine this technology is good in general for storage of wind and solar generated power? It sounds good to me, but I can’t determine what is realistic and what is hype.
Grid storage is enabling for both high penetration of intermittent generation and to allow baseload resources to load-follow. The key question about this particular technology is whether they can make money off of it, which is a function not just capital cost (which is low), but also efficiency, cycle life, operating costs. The electrochemistry works, but I can’t tell you if the economics do yet.
But it’s not going to do much to help charge your car unless you’re sticking a battery in your back yard.