This weekend, I started my shower up and remembered I needed to switch my laundry down in the basement. With the water running, I went downstairs, and noticed for the first time ever (since I don’t think I’ve been down in the basement with the shower running for at least a couple years now), water trickling down the wall. There’s not much evidence that this has been going on long term, but I’m not going to suggest this was a first-time occurrence either.
It’s not a leak. I turned off the shower and let the water run from the bath faucet and there wasn’t any leaking. So it’s clearly (as much as I can be sure) coming from the wall. Closer inspection shows that I have a number of cracks in the grout.
So - what’s the damage? Or at least, how do I best determine what the damage is? I’m happy to regrout the tile - that’s an easy fix. But do I need to examine the wall behind? Is there a non-invasive way of determining that? Or do I need to tear off the tile and build a new wall? Any help, guidance or follow-up questions are greatly appreciated.
(Note: I went out and got a tension rod and shower curtain to put on that side of the shower, so there’s no danger of water on the wall at the moment - but it’s certainly a temporary fix.)
Turn the water off and let everything dry completely. When everything is completely bone dry (if it indeed does get completely bone dry) turn the shower back on observe for wetness. In other words isolate the problem to determine if it is caused by the shower. A couple years ago a copper pipe in my bathroom (behind the wall) developed a pinhole leak that I blamed on the shower. Only after I ripped out a lot of tiles did I find that it was the pipe.
So…if the shower does cause the link I would try putting food coloring where you think the leak might be and see if that color comes through downstairs. If you can isolate it to a certain color then use a chisel and chip out the offending grout and tiles and fix it. IANAP though… just my own experience as a Harry homeowner (and watching This Old House).
Anyone else? Someone suggested the worst case scenario - that I’d have to take off the tile and then tear down the wall behind (it’s plaster), and put up the insulation and new drywall, then retile. I’m certainly capable of doing all that, it just sounds like a giant pain (and a huge mess).
Water trickling down the wall suggests, to me, more than a few cracks in the grout. That is a lot of water. I’ve had tile pop off the wall in my shower from moisture getting into bad grout and I never saw water in the basement. When this happened I put up plastic to stop the leaking until I could fix it. The plastic stopped the wall from drying out.
You might have a leak in the pipe to the showerhead or maybe around the wall where the showerhead comes out. Or it could be a leak in your roof vent. Was it raining? I would follow the pipes, if possible, and rule that out completely before I would start removing tile.
I’ve ruled out a leak. There’s no water when I just run the bath, or when I run the shower with the liner in place (and I have a showerhead that detaches, so I’ve tested that as well). The water is also coming down about 1.5 feet away from where the pipes are.
Good point about the plastic preventing the wall from drying out - I’ll make sure to pull it back after my showers.
after you have used the curtain to prevent new water, drawn the curtain back otherwise and let the wall dry; then test for loose tiles. bang on individual tiles, if they are loose then you would want to reglue. clean down to plaster in that spot, if the plaster is soft and flaky then you may need to redo the plaster.
I battled leaking tile/grout, etc. for a few years before I relented and tore the whole thing out. Based on my experience, it’s not worth the extra trouble to try to pinpoint the problem and attempt a patch fix.
Few things I learned in the process from reading this or talking to that…
Use ONLY cement board behind the tile in the shower area, the entire area. Do not use any type/form of drywall, including that advertised as being water/mold/mildew resistant.
Never use “mastic” on tile in a shower, no matter what the store person tells you.
However long you think it will take, triple it. And then add like two more weeks.
It could also be the manifold. With the shower head set to off turn the hot water on let it run and go check for leaks. If no leaks turn the hot off and try the cold. If still no leaks then you will have eliminated the manifold - but not the shower head. Repeat the process with the shower head on. If your plastic is in place and no leaks then you can probably figure it is tile or grout or caulk.
Ps- Jeff’s timetable above if pretty darn accurate!
Thanks for the input, Jeff. I’m thinking the same - that patching loose tile (and I know there are a number of them) is going to be a giant game of Whack-A-Mole, and it’d be easier to just do the whole thing. So - let’s see if we can sum up, in order:
Rip out the whole damn wall - plaster and lathe included.
Make sure the leak isn’t at the base of the wall where it joins the tub or shower. There should be a lip there to prevent leaks, but if it’s a plastic or fiberglass model there could be a hole, or the tiles weren’t set far enough down. I’m not sure, but if the tiles aren’t well sealed to the enclosure there it’s possible water is wicking up in small cavities and over the rim.
Anyway, if you do have replace the wall backing, be sure to use some type of tile board that won’t get ruined if there’s another leak. And if you do rip the wall out, it would have to be pretty bad to require new studs.
Is this an outside wall? Any chance of examining things from the other side?
It’s an outside wall. And to increase the difficulty factor, there’s a window right in the middle of it. (I’m required by the historical preservation department to keep the window, so there’s no way I’d be able to even replace it with glass block).
Too bad about that. I’m sure you were warned about the preservation stuff when you bought the house Now you have a lot more to worry about. If a few dabs of silicone caulk won’t stop the leak, sounds like you’re looking at a new wall. Luckily it’s not that big of a job. Make sure to get wall tiles. They’re lighter than floor tiles. Use the little plastic spacers when you put them in, and use grout sealer. I put silicone caulk on the lip when I laid up the first course of tiles to get a good seal there. It worked well for 5 years, and then I sold the house so I don’t know the long term results.
The thing I’m dreading the most is the fact that the entire bathroom is surrounded by wall tile. Some reading suggests that trying to salvage tile is a fool’s errand, and I have a feeling finding matching tile won’t be all that easy. Guess I’ll pop one out and take it down to The Tile Center to get a quote. I guess if push comes to shove I can tear off ALL the tile (oh god…) and just paint the walls like a normal human being’s bathroom…
The colors never match. I redid a section in my shower and try not to look at it because the colors (white!) are oh, so subtly different. It is only noticeable because the tiles are adjacent, the light is just right and I know where the repair was. This is why I hate doing home repairs. I can see the faults that nobody else would notice.
I tore out the wallpaper in our bathroom and painted everything, except for the shower stall, now my wife wants me to tile the whole damned thing. So there is no way to win. If you do paint the bathroom, get the most expensive anti-mildew paint you can buy (I got Sherwin-Williams.) Discount “bathroom” paint grew mildew in just a couple of weeks at my house.
Thanks for the advice on the bathroom paint. I usually get the good stuff (it’s what - $5 more a gallon?), and I went semi-gloss in my half-bath, which seems to clean up extremely well. I’d think something a bit more textured would be more at risk of mildew.
Again, I was in the same boat with the tile surrounding the entire bathroom half-way up the wall. Standard white 4 inch tile. I didn’t even attempt a match. I tore out the entire bathroom down to the studs and replaced everything.
On top of that - my house was built in the 50s btw - once I had the walls out, I noticed that between that room and an unfinished portion of basement below, I had access to about 90% of the plumbing in the house. And since it was all old galvanized steel plumbing, it seemed silly to wall over all that old plumbing again without replacing it. So I tore out whatever plumbing I could get at and replaced it all with copper.
It was a GIANT pita, but I’m glad I did it. All the hot lines were 1/2 and I upgraded them all to 3/4. I replaced venting… the works. 50 y.o. galvanized plumbing was so clogged with rust. Massive improvement to the water pressure over the entire house.
While I was at it, I installed extra valves in a few key places. With any future work, I won’t have to shut off the whole house. I can isolate sections.
And, I roughed in an option for a water softener so that it only covers the hot water inside the house. We never did install one. But if we ever change our minds it will be a snap.
Anyway, that was my nightmare. The whole thing took me TWO YEARS. And I still haven’t stained the door frame…
Now you have a lot more to worry about. If a few dabs of silicone caulk won’t stop the leak, sounds like you’re looking at a new wall. Luckily it’s not that big of a job. Make sure to get wall tiles. They’re lighter than floor tiles. Use the little plastic spacers when you put them in, and use grout sealer. I put silicone caulk on the lip when I laid up the first course of tiles to get a good seal there. It worked well for 5 years, and then I sold the house so I don’t know the long term results.