I liked Edward Scissorhands. But I liked the first half better than the second half. The fish-out-of-water-adapting-to-a-new-environment was fun, as were the stereotypical Suburbanites (I grew up in the '70s, so I know!). The Robbery, the Relationship… meh. They were OK, but I enjoyed them less than the earlier parts. Come to think of it, I think Mars Attacks petered out a bit, too.
Vincent was brilliant, and so was Frankenweenie. I still like Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure (and it shows Santa Monica’s 3rd Street during its transitional stage). Beetlejuice is a favourite. I saw Batman at its L.A. premiere, and still have the free stuff they gave away. I liked it, but I’m not really a huge Batman fan and haven’t seen any of the sequels. I liked The Nightmare Before Christmas, but I didn’t know it was a musical when I went to see it. Some of those songs still come to mind at Halloween and Christmas. Ed Wood: Brilliant. James and the Giant Peach was worth a look, but not really for me. Sleepy Hollow didn’t quite put me to sleep. Planet Of The Apes was a big disappointment. Big Fish is sweet, and a little sad since I’d lost my dad a few years before it came out. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was… interesting. Johnny Depp’s Michael-Jackson-as-Willy-Wonka was too topical to be enduring, and I wish they’d had more than one actor for the Oompa Loompas. Corpse Bride had its moments.
I think the hassle over Batman Returns did something to him. He’s made some decent films since then, but his first few movies are really the Tim Burton opus. Everything after that is him either cashing a check, recycling an idea from when he was younger, or trying to live up to the Burton TM style.
Big Fish is probably his best movie after that point, in terms of creating something that wasn’t a complete rip-off of himself.
Sage Rat pretty much nailed my opinion of the guy.
I really loved Edward Scissorhands because I thought it was an original take on the whole “suburbia doesn’t like anything different” theme. The visual style is awesome when you first see it, but by the time you’ve seen Sleepy Hollow, Sweeney Todd, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and then Alice in Wonderland, it just stops being interesting.
I like Burton, but I I have to agree that Sage Rat nailed it in one. With the exception of Big Fish he hasn’t been terribly relevant since the early 90’s.
I don’t think he was prepared for the criticism that Batman Returns met and he’s more or less become a parody of himself in the “Hollywood Spotlight” since that time. It’s like he’s afraid to take chances.
He needs to branch out a little and do stuff that’s a little more grounded than Planet of the Apes or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, but infuse his own sensibilities like he did with Fish.
Oddly enough, I actually like the Batman mythos and I personally thought he did a good job with the original movie and went way over the top with the sequel. His ideas are good, he just needs to dial it back a bit.
I think what ruined Batman Returns for me was the fact that every car on the street, except for the Batmobile and Bruce Wayne’s limo, were the same model of car.
Well it may be that what set him up was Batman. IMHO one of the most over rated movies ever.
He makes that. He makes Edward, then he makes Batman Returns. The honeymoon is over.
If you take the Batman films out of the list, (directed by) it goes like this.
Beetle Juice
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Mars Attacks
Sleepy Hollow
Planet of the Apes
Big Fish
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Corpse Bride
Sweeney Todd
Alice in Wonderland
That’s a very good career for a director spanning 22 years. It’s the huge fall from grace of Batman Returns falling from Batman.
This is just my opinion but I think Burton is a director who follows the “do one for them and then do one for you” rule. If you look over the above list of movies, I think you can almost neatly divide them into “for them” and “for me” columns. In the former column goes the Batman movies, Planet of the Apes, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and** Alice in Wonderland**. The latter column features Edward Scissorhands, Ed Wood, Mars Attacks, Big Fish, Corpse Bride, and (although this might be disputed) Sweeney Todd. I think his movies in the “for me” column are generally better than ones in the “for them” column (with the big exception of Mars Attacks) although they made a lot less money than the “for them” films.
Folks in this thread keep mentioning this in passing, but I’m not sure exactly what everyone is referring to. What’s the story, here? I thought BATMAN RETURNS was a well-reviewed film that made a ton of money, with the general consensus being that it wasn’t as good as the original; a quick look over at Rotten Tomatoes turns up Roger Ebert giving one of the few negative reviews, but even he stresses that RETURNS is (a) not a bad movie by any stretch, but rather one that’s (b) intriguing and creative and fun to talk about and great to look at, inhabited by interesting characters, never boring, et cetera, et cetera.
Are you people insane? Apart from Jack Nicholson’s (overrated) performance as the Joker and the Prince soundtrack (which is certainly not prime Prince material, and I say that as a huge fan), Batman doesn’t have all that much going for it. To me it’s always seemed like Burton was desperately trying to find his place within the confines of a big Hollywood tent pole film, and not having much luck in doing so.
Batman Returns, on the other hand? It’s pretty much a Tim Burton Movie through and through, and only nominally a Batman flick. Which, of course, makes it a better picture than the original, hands down.
As for Burton’s best? Well, that’d be either Ed Wood, Beetlejuice, or Pee-wee’s Big Adventure.
He’s certainly made good money this decade, anyways. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Sweeny Todd both made several times their initial investment back, and somewhat incredibly, Alice and Wonderland is the fifth highest grossing film of all time (not adjusted for inflation I know, but still)
I wouldn’t classify James and the Giant Peach as a Tim Burton movie. Burton was a producer on the film but it was directed by Henry Selick, who also directed The Nightmare Before Christmas. TNBC was based on a story and characters written and designed by Burton, but JatGP was, of course, a Roald Dahl story.
I really like most of Burton’s movies, the exceptions being *Planet of the Apes *and Alice in Wonderland. *Mars Attacks *isn’t a favorite, but it is a pretty fun parody/tribute to the old 50’s sci-fi movies.
And while I didn’t like Depp’s portrayal of Wonka, I think most of the other apsects of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory hew pretty close to the book, for which I was grateful.
My favorites would be* Edward Scissorhands*, Beetlejuice, and The Nightmare Before Christmas.
Can someone explain all the Batman Returns references in this thread? Batman Returns is probably my favourite superhero film ever. I know it’s become fashionable to diss on Burton after Nolan’s “grittier” Batman films, but wasn’t Batman Returns both a commercial success and a much more “personal” film for Burton? (i.e. he had more creative control?)
edit: so basically, what the other Waldo Pepper said.
I wasn’t ragging on it, at least. At the time Tim Burton made Batman Returns, his marriage was falling apart (which was stressful), he was helming the follow-up to an insanely large franchise (which was stressful) and I think having problems with the studio wanting him to keep it fairly close to the style of Batman 1, where he wanted to do something new and interesting (which was stressful), just to have the movie come out and have tons of people complain that it was too dark, too mystical, too gross, or whatever else (which was stressful).
From an interview I read with him when he was making Mars Attacks, I got the impression that he’d largely had a meltdown or emotional breakdown or something that he’d been slogging through for the previous 4-5 years – only to be finally relieved when he met Lisa Marie. Certainly, though, he’s never made another movie since that time that quite had the magic that I’d expect.
But as regards Batman Returns, personally I like it quite well.
I’ve never seen a Burton I didn’t like. Yes, as per the standard complaint, he has a distinct style he doesn’t much stray from. It just so happens to be a style I like a lot. Also I really, really like Helena B-C, so his constant use of her nowadays doesn’t put me off the way it seems to do for a lot of people.
Planet of the Apes was terrible, but other then that I don’t think I’ve flat out didn’t like any of his other films. Some were better then others, but I agree that with the one exception even his lesser films are a decent way to spend two hours.
De gustibus. It was certainly miles better than the original for me, chiefly by not having Charlton Heston or 70s styling in it, plus I liked the costuming a lot, especially the armour.
