While I"m not Tomndebb, I’d be very interested in seeing a cite to the actual project itself, as opposed to an editorial. I honestly can’t find anything about this fence between Poland and Russia that doesn’t source Stephanie Gutmann, and I don’t see anything from her to back up the claim. It’s quite possible that she’s correct, but I’d still like to see details about the fence itself.
I agree. I couldn’t find anything linking to the actual project, just to editorials. I just posted to say this is probably what s(he) was talking about. I wasn’t trying to prove her point, I was just satisfying my own curiousity and thought I’d post it along with the other links.
Dishonest to point out that in the end you are trying to run away from declaring that illegals are not doing a bad thing for being here? :dubious: That they are not criminals? :dubious: I’m only pointing to the silliness of attempting now to make your “Would you prefer that we never talk to anyone bad and try yo make the best of bad situations? Grow up.” to apply only to dictators, since we are dealing with criminal illegals, it is silly to deny they are “bad” people, just because you want your “great example” to apply only to dictators does not prevent anyone to apply it to the matter at hand, learn to live with disappointments.
Or as it clear now: you are not willing to grow up to see that many illegals will be death not with deportation, but we will make the best of the current bad situation with solutions that you will not like.
I cannot deciper the last paragraph, but I assume it would be as relevant as the rest. :rolleyes:
But for the record, as inapt as your attempted equivalency is, who said we shouldn’t “talk” to the illegals? Please provide a cite or retract or just shut up. The part we disagree on is what should be done with them. We both knew that before we woke up this morning. No surprise. We disagree. I know I’m not going to change your mind so I’m happy to leave our debate aside. But you resurrect it at every opportunity, even when it is not the subject of an exchange—to which you were not even party to. :rolleyes:
And then you use dishonest debating tactics. And refuse to acknowledge it when it is laid before you in a manner a 12-year-old would understand. You can continue to ignore it, but it doesn’t change the fact of your behavior. It just makes takes what could have been a small temporary wart on you cheek and turns it into leprosy visible to all.
BTW the first paragraph of my last post was sarcasm to the 10xlevel. Even this late you are not noticing that you are attacking your own tactics.
So you admit that your equivalency is ridiculous? Excellent. Now own up to your mistake and we may be able to have further discussion.
If you think that is so, you need to report me, just because you say so does not make it so, What I’m doing here is expanding on an example you did choose, as it has been typical, your examples are the pits, pointing that out by applying it to the matter at hand clearly got you. You don’t call what you did, telling another to shut up with a bad example, dishonesty. OK, I call it being silly and I pointed that out.
So, are you willing to say illegals are not criminals?
What example did I choose that began this? Please be specific. This began when you repsonded to my post (#171) about dictators, which was directed to Der Trihs, and which you quoted in your initail post (#197) that started this discussion. There was no “example” offered. Look, here’s the quote:
“Mistaken” again, GIGObuster?
In small words: yes, that is the silly example, telling someone to “grow up” and then see you act so surprised that your big news flash can be applied with little effort to illegals is what is ironic.
(emphasis mine)
“That”? What are you referring to with "that? Nothing. Nothing because I used no example. So, you can point to no example.
Still, you continue… :rolleyes:
I am done.
How do you think that is related to the fact that 20% of this country was fairly recently Mexico?
Doesn’t democracy need a fairly free flow of people to work?
hums “don’t fence me in”
News flash: you once again show that you don’t care what you say. Grow up.
I am astounded that you never took any history in school. Britain was the first country to outlaw slavery in 1836 I believe. I may be wrong on the exact year but I think it is close. The rest of Europe practiced slavery and had since the beginning of human history. There was something called fuedalism which was basically the same thing as chattel slavery in Europe practiced on most of the people. IN the 20th century slavery was restored under the Nazis. Most Muslim countries did not outlaw slavery until late in the 20th century and in the area where they did not have legal slavery, it was stamped out by the colonial powers, not by the wishes of the Muslims.
I am further disappointed that the only thing you can recall is that slavery was wrong and that American whites were the only evil ones on Earth. If you wish to make judgements in history, I think a better methodology would be to see who was acting for the progress of human history in certain areas. For example, Washington owned slaves and was a typical southern planter. By the end of his life, he had converted to the abolitionist position, manumited his slaves, gave them pensions, and in short was far ahead of his time. Woodrow Wilson from what I recall, was a racist, segregationist, and was against the tide of history along with many other Presidents. Lincoln himself was racist according to our standards today. I think that his lack of PC was outweighed by what he DID, and is far more important than his personal views of the ability of blacks.
randyjet, I’ll have you know I was a history major. And yes, slavery was practiced in some other forms. I’m not saying it wasn’t. But the idea that the US was somehow just doing what everyone else did? Not that I’m aware of-at least at that time.
Feudalism was not slavery. If you’re thinking of serfs, that would be manorism, and that wasn’t the same as slavery in the US, either. Brutal, but not quite the same.
And note I said WESTERN nations. I wasn’t talking about the middle east.
Still ducking and weaving, eh, randyjet?
This is the type of " false generalities" you are guilty of. No one has claimed that American whites were the only evil ones on Earth. You made a statement about Jim Bowie which on the face of it, could not be true. You had an opportunity clarify that statement, instead you fall upon the usual, “…but everyone else had slaves too…”
Now you bring out Washington, Wilson and the old standby, Lincoln…
In previous posts I have given cites which you have chosen not to check out. That is not my fault. As for point one, I refer you to Bush’s speech. I guess you missed it and I don’t much blame you for that one. At least I got to laugh a few times at the beginning. I thought that those who have an opinion on this subject would be at least have read what he said. Point 2 I would send you to AOL, web search, and USA Today, Point 3 You find such from general news reports, I have a number of friends who live in Mexico and they became citizens, and you can find such things on the web as well, Point 4 is available in the media and web search, Point 5 I gave you a wikipedia cite, and did the same for points 6 and 7.
At least for your own information, I would do that search to see if indeed you are right. I don’t expect to hear any reply, but at least the factual basis for things will have been raised.
As for the other allegations, I would again refer you to wikipedia reference, and as for suggestions on quotas, I made two suggestions, not one. You conveniently forget that. That says something about the quality of your own argument.
The insulting language is a stretch as you admit. The only thing I can see is that you don’t like sarcasm, or disagreement when applied to your end. It is quite OK to say I am ignorant, a liar, among other things and a racist. So I think one should take the moat out of ones own eye before removing my speck.
As for the last parts of your objections, I am sorry that common sense and appealing to it is an insult.
Yeh, yeh . . . Howboutcha tell us where you really stand on the race thing and why?
I imagine that we won’t hear that until sometime in June…