I was a captain for an airline until recently and one of our First Officers/ co-pilot was from Europe and had a green card. Unfortunately, the F/O had let the card lapse by a few days while on a trip that took him into Canada. He was refused entry back into the US in Toronto by the US Immigration people even though he was a crew member and needed for the flight. He is still in Canada now and no longer has his job. That is the difference.
He lost his job because of his inattention to the documents needed to perform his job. I don’t know if he even got back into the US since I lost contact with him after that.
The problem is that they ticket and release about 36% of the illegals caught because they do not have the detention space to house them. It could easily be solved by erecting a tent city with cots, and barbed wire fencing out in the open. Then they could detain all of the people apprehended, instead of letting them go.
It is obvious that some of the folks don’t wish facts to get in the way of their opinions.
Last things first: since it was discovered so swiftly and easily, it was incumbent on you, the person making the point, to dig up that information and present it in this Forum rather than repeating vague claims that you thought the president might have said something in a speech.
Now, since you are making the bold claim that
you should be aware that you have, from what I can see, misrepresented that actual events that take place.
The policy glibly known as “catch and release” is actually a policy of “voluntary deportation” that has existed for many years, being most recently addressed in law in 1996. It is a policy that suffers a lot of problems, being a clear example of the Law of Unintended Consequences, further hampered by unclear rules and a lack of funding to enforce those rules.
Beyond that, the story to which you linked did not even directly address the “catch and release” (or “voluntary deportation”) programs, but noted that the government is failing to provide funds to handle persons detained as actual threats–an issue more directly associated with the War on Terror than with the War on Immigration. (Certainly, the issues are related, but the story to which you linked muddies the water by conflating a couple of different practices.)
However, you have still failed to demonstrate that the (admittedly flawed) “voluntary deportation” system actually results in the United States doing either of the following:
“If your documents coming from Europe are not in order, you are held in jail, and deported.”
“If you are from a country other than Mexico to the south, you get a ticket and are sent on your way.”
Until you take the time to demonstrate that you understand the issue described (casually and unclearly) by the president so that you are not making egregious errors when you hold forth in this thread, we are free to dismiss your statements as just more ranting.
You just broke my irony meter.
That story means nothing by itself. If you cited a story where a Latino in exactly the same situation got better treatment than your F/O – that still would be anecdotal, but at least it would be relevant.
So if they try to escape do the machinegun towers take care of them? What if they’re escaping towards Mexico? What if it’s someone from one of those other countries, instead?
I know. We can get the Minutemen to guard them - I’ve heard there are millions. And they’re always going on and on about how they only want what’s best for those people. I’m sure we can trust them to do a good job and be all humane and stuff.
-Joe
The guards should do what guards in all of our prisons do to keep prisoners from escaping. They don’t much care if the escaping prisoner is escaping to see his or her buddy in the next prison over and would come back. Or if you prefer, just give them a pass and let them promise to come back for their hearing. Needless to say, most don’t bother showing up.
I also think that 36% being let go with zero shows for hearings is absurd compared to 0% on other borders and people. That is preferential treatment if I ever heard of it.
So, you’re advocating concentration camps with a shoot-to-kill policy?
-Joe
However, you have still failed to demonstrate that the (admittedly flawed) “voluntary deportation” system actually results in the United States doing either of the following:
“If your documents coming from Europe are not in order, you are held in jail, and deported.”
“If you are from a country other than Mexico to the south, you get a ticket and are sent on your way.”
Until you take the time to demonstrate that you understand the issue described (casually and unclearly) by the president so that you are not making egregious errors when you hold forth in this thread, we are free to dismiss your statements as just more ranting.
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Sorry but since I routinely went in and out of the US a huge number of times, I do know the procedures applied to those going through the airports which is the main way for Europeans, Africans and others to enter the US. If you don’t pass muster, they sent you to the holding area and the carrier gets to give you a free ride back to where you came from. You are NOT free to leave and tour NYC while waiting for your ride home.
The percentage of people detained is dependent on how full the facilities are. Some days all those that they catch may be given a ticket and go on their merry way. If they have space, you won’t. That statistic is but an average. You will not get such an average at JFK, BOS, IAD, or any other port of entry. You will not enter period.
They would not give our F/O a notice to appear either. HE just could not even enter. THat I think consitutes discrimination as well.
I am advocating standard US prison policy. If you have a problem with it, ask your legislators to disarm all the guards at your local prison. I love the ranting that since guards at prisons shoot at escaping prisoners, they are the same as concentration camp guards. Lovely! Not terribly logical, but funny.
I hope you will be as understanding when the rapists escape and do their fun thing on their victims once more too. Or muderers who might have a grudge against the folks who sent them up.
A holding area for undocumented immigrants is not and should not be a prison.
Ah. Or those terrible brownskins who will go and CROSS A BORDER AGAIN! OH NOOOO!
Of course, since they’re already here, repeating their crime again will put them THERE and our problems will be solved.
How much cash do you think we could save by getting rid of all these fancy prisons and just sticking everyone in tents in the middle of the desert? Maybe we could do that with all prisons.
-Joe, not beliving I’m actually doing anything other than laughing at your “logic”
So, you are saying that if you arrive from Mexico aboard an airliner that departed Mexico City, Acupulco, or Cancún you are treated differently than people arriving at the same airport from other places in the world?
Or, are you saying that people who arrive aboard ships in the Ports of New York, Los Angeles, Miami, or Seattle are treated differently depending on whether they arrive from Mexico, China, Ghana, or Portugal?
Or, are you saying that an illigal alien discovered roaming around Des Moines or Indianapolis or Peoria is treated differently, depending on what country the person left to get here?
Or, as seems much more likely, are you pointing out that there happens to be a procedure in place to deal with the limited number of people (at one time) who enter the U.S. through the confines of an airport terminal, which coincidentally affects rather more people from places other than Mexico than people from Mexico, and you have drawn the fallacious inference that we have a policy of treating people differently by nation of origin when, in fact, we simply have a policy that addresses one form of transportaion more effectively than other forms of transportation.
Turning people away at the gate does nothing to address the issues surrounding “voluntary deportation” and you seem to have drawn some rather inaccurate inferences based on your anecdotal awareness of one particular situation.
That is actually funny! Just what do you suggest we do, get them a room at a five star hotel? Or how about Motel 6 since we are trying to save money. But that might be cruel and inhuman punishment so that would have to be out. Of course, they should be free to come and go unlike a PRISON which restricts their freedom.
I don’t see why they should NOT be in a prison since they violated the law. All other US citizens get the same treatment for breaking the law, even for misdemeanors. Hell if you don’t pay child support you go to prison. I assume that you are in favor of that. SO in essence you are in favor of creating a special class of people who may violate the law with impunity who should not be imprisoned for their violation of our laws so long as they are illegal immigrants from the south of the US borders. The rest of US citizens who do similar violations of the laws can go straight to jail.
That is not preferential treatment at all is it?
The situation that affected our crewman was that he was not totally illegal, just out of date on his permits. I wish that he had been shown the same kind of consideration given to the illegals who were caught crossing the border, but were given a ticket to appear. That they are given such an option in many cases and he was not, is rank discrimination. AS it was he was not allowed to work the flight and resulted in a major delay. We had to fly another pilot up to take his place so that we could leave Canada. I think that issuing a ticket, as many illegals who have no documentation at all get would have been right. He should have been from south of the border and he probably would have been allowed in with all the hell that could have been raised with racial discrimination charges.
You are talking about people who have not been convicted of any crime in a court of law. They are merely awaiting disposition of their status by administrators or an immigration court. There was an effort recently to criminalize illegal entry to the U.S. and it went down in flames. If undocumented aliens must be restrained pending resolution of their cases, their is no just or lawful reason to include any element of punishment beyond what such incarceration logically and strictly requires. No, a holding area for undocumented aliens is not and should not be a prison.
Ahh! It is as I thought. You have no clue regarding this topic.
People who are caught crossing the border are not given a ticket to appear in court.
The people who are ticketed and ordered to report to a court appearance are those who are already in the country, generally holding jobs, maybe owning homes, often for having overstayed visas (sometimes because we do not fund the agencies responsible for processing visa renewals for enough manpower to actually process them in the time necessary to renew, other times because they are hoping to simply stay here illegally). The people caught crossing into the country are not issued a ticket and told to feel free to roam around until their court date comes up.
Now, there are, indeed, a lot of problems with the current process, but conflating separate issues, (and apparently being unaware that they are separate), is not helping you make your case. It simply causes some of us to doubt your claims and your logic when you appear to be unaware of what your claims actually are.
I would be really interested to see someone provide evidence that anyone was ever caught crossing a border illegally and were simply issued a ticket and allowed to roam the country until their court date came up.
I find this to be incredible. I suggest you go to the border yourself since you refuse to accept any facts about it from any source. The fact is that entering the US is a crime without legal permission. That is why all the Mexicans are held without trial or any prospect of one and deported when they are caught. Any person who tries to enter without permission from any airport port of entry is similarly detained and put on a flight out. The difference is that they technically have not entered the US, and so have committed no offense.
You are also wrong in that the Sensenbrenner bill is still alive and well which makes illegal entry a felony. Right now it is a misdemeanor. You go to jail for misdemeanors by the way. You don’t just get a ticket and sent on your merry way depending on the violation. If it is DUI, you get to spend some real jail time even before your trial.
You don’t seriously expect that provision to make it into law, do you? Have you been asleep for the past two months?!
True – but a pre-trial holding facility such as a county jail is intended only to detain, not to punish. And in most cases you have the option of making bail.
Funny, I think that statement would be news to my former employer, an agency that holds hundreds of thousands of removal hearings every year; only about 1/4 of these involve Mexicans (see p. 19).
Unless they have a legitimate claim to a right to stay in the U.S. such as a claim to U.S. citizenship or permanent residency, or to asylum; then they are held for hearing (see link above) or released on bond.
Ummmm, are you seriously alleging that people detained for misdemeanors, or felonies for that matter, are never released on bond?