That’s false. Try getting your facts straight. You also seem to form opinions while being uninformed.
Come on! There are only 11.3 million people in Cuba! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba I can’t believe for a moment that 12 million have left since 1959!
magellan01 was talking about Mexico, not Cuba. Here’s the post:
What’s false? The 12 million figure? Wasn’t that listed earlier in the thread? Or, the fact that people are leaving Mexico in droves? That can’t be disputed. Why would they do so if they had the opportunities at home. I didn’t make a comment on why they didn’t have the opportunities, but some things can be assumed with just a general knowledge of the conditions there. Do you have more insight as to why large numbers of people are leaving their country to move North other than it is better where they are going to than where they are coming from?
I should have added, if you read down the thread, that was the post Uzi was referring to with the 12 million statistic (not vouching for the accuracy of that stat, however.)
Yes the 12 million. Even if the estimates of 12 million undocumented workers is correct, what makes you say all are from Mexico? Would you be able to tell the difference between a Mexican and a Central or South American?
What exactly is your general knowledge of conditions here? From where did you acquire this “general knowledge”? I find most if not all posters on this board have next to no knowledge of Mexico and assume far too much.
I’d rather not see the guy sleeping on my things as well. I’d also like to give a hand to someone that would be reduced to considering sleeping on my couch on the lawn as a last resort. I know you’re against social services, but things should be in place to help poor and homeless. Civilizations are judged on how they treat the lowest common denominator.
The fence itself isn’t a thing of violence. Putting up the fence/wall could be the fruits of violence, as could enforcing this border.
We should deal with the problems and solve them, not pretend they don’t exist or punish people for their condition.
Additionally, I see the word “Member” under your name. Welcome, and I hope you enjoy your stay here. I welcome opposing viewpoints and look forward to converse with anyone.
I’ve been taught and spoken pretty extensively with a man who was born and raised in Cuba, yet brought to the US as a youngster. People that leave Cuba do so because they don’t buy into Communism/Socialism/Marxism-Leninism and believe they want the promises that Capitalism can afford them. They leave for opportunity.
of course there could be different reasons, but this is a broad one
Would I be able to tell the difference between a Mexican and someone further south? Not likely. Are you willing to concede that a large percentage of that ‘estimate’ of 12 million is Mexican? 1/2? 1/4? How about we agree that there are lots of Mexicans in that mix and that there are lots of others, too.
Is there corruption in the Mexican government (more so than in the US?) Yes.
Corruption index
Is the typical Mexican’s living conditions better or worse off than the typical American’s? Worse off. An American is 4 times better off.
GDP (PPP) per capita
Is it so bad that many are willing to move north in order to escape to better economic condtions: Yes.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/31/illegal.immigration/
That may be a high number. Lets just use 50% and say that 6 million people, or just over 5% of the Mexican population, seems to agree with my statement.
I’ve been to Mexico a Couple of times, if that’s what you’re asking. I also have friends who were born and live in Mexico. But yes, I do get most of my information from reading. I recommend it highly. And who knows, you might like it, as well.
But please go right ahead and try to paint yourself as the know-it-all expert on Mexico because you live there. Since you do, I certainly hope you know more about it. But that doesn’t mean that you have a monopoly on all information Mexico. But feel free to continue under that assumption.
No, I don’t necessarily want you to shut up, I just wish that you wouldn’t attempt to piss on America, or our servicemen, and every fucking opportunity. It just gets old. Tell me, is there anything good anout America or what we do? Ever? Every time I see your name pop up I can guess the content—somehow, some way, America is at fault, or America is evil. And what’s possibly even more amazing than that is that you continue to do this at every turn even after it’s been pointed out in more than one Pit thread by people on your side that your tactics simply allow people to discount what you have to say. But you’re just like a doll with a string in it’s neck, you pull it and you get one of three lines: America is evil, American servicemen are scum, America is evil and American servicemen are scum. Just break it up a little. Now if you can’t do that, I do wish you would just shut up. It would lead to a less monotonous life.
And big newsflash. In the real world sometimes you have to deal with unsavory characters, choose the lesser of two evils. Would you prefer that we never talk to anyone bad and try yo make the best of bad situations? Grow up.
Probably; I can’t think of anything offhand.
You mean like this ?
Or this ?
How about this :
Gee, you’re right, I never do anything but criticise America. :rolleyes:
Newsflash : We are the worlds one and only superpower. We don’t need to suck up to Third World thugs who boil their enemies. Not to mention, we always go on and on about our moral superiority and how we stand for freedom and democracy; when you talk like that, some people notice when we do the opposite; people like me.
There is nothing in the title or OP of this thread that invites personal commentary on other posters. We have MPSIMS and e-mail for laudatory commentary and The BBQ Pit and e-mail for negative commentary.
Personal observations do nothing to carry this discussion forward and personal exchanges should be left outside this thread.
[ /Moderating ]
Actually, I’m not against social services…I just think more of them should be privatized, and more of them should be aimed at getting people to be INdependent, not DEpendent.
I haven’t noticed the fence in my backyard being a fruit of violence, but if it is, I still don’t feel bad about having it there.
And…thanks for the welcome…been lurking for a long time, so I feel like I’m sort of part of the action already! 
And…when they leave for this opportunity, does Fidel happily sign off on their new Visa? Or do they have to leave under cover of night, and hope that nothing bad accidentally happens to any family they might have left behind?
Soo…one of the arguments against illegals is that they’re a big drain on health care resources and all that. Hospitals closing, massive unpaid bills.
Assuming we get The Best Fence Ever That Only Illegals With Superpowers Can Cross…what kind of savings can I expect on my health insurance? How about on my hospital bills?
-Joe
None. The key phrase to keep in mind is “what the market will bear”. The health care industry will charge you whatever they can get you to pay, regardless of their own costs. The goal, after all, is to maximize profits, not save you money.
. . . Still waiting for randyjet to explain why preserving America’s current racial/ethnic composition is an important goal . . .
As the May 1 demonstrations proved, things do not just happen without some intervention of other people. If we had totally open borders and could take all comers, then it might be right. The fact is that we DO limit Europeans, Africans, and Asians to some extent. Limiting one while being so open to others is NOT just letting things develop as per the wishes of those immigrants.
The current method of visa grants for residency is now based on hemispheric allocation. As opposed to the pre-1965 method of using the 1890 census as the basis for visa grants.
But I keep hearing about how immigrants are driving the price of healthcare higher. Certainly, were their costs to go down my costs would go down as well.
Isn’t that what the free market is all about?
-Joe