I’d be interested in a cite to that study. Those are some pretty dramatic numbers. 80+% will get breast cancer if they’ve had at least three abortions? That is a stunning number and I can’t help but wonder at its accuracy. Even if 80+% of ALL women who’ve had three or more abortions developed breast cancer you also need to show a causal link between the abortions and the breast cancer and suggest a mechanism by which this is caused. For instance, is there a lifestyle more common among women who have had three+ abortions in their lives that might be a contributing factor to developing breast cancer?
Further, abortions are actually very safe procedures when done by qualified personnel. It is actually FAR safer than carrying a child to term.
Yep, most abortion clinics do thorough counselling beforehand, with all risks outlined.
I imagine you know more women than you think who have gone through this procedure. Many women who have abortions don’t have “regret or sorrow,” and if you were aquainted with such a woman I doubt she would share the details of her experience with someone such as yourself.
I take perfect responsibility for my sexual choices, thankyouverymuch. Should my pill somehow fail, I have three hundred dollars saved up and Planned Parenthood’s phone number. Abortion- in a country where it is legal and safe- is a perfectly acceptable way of “taking responsibility”. Trying to take that away on grounds of “responsibilty” is merely creating artificial consequences for an action and smacks of trying to control women’s sexual behavoir just for the hell of it.
re homicide for killing someone else’s unborn, it’s a matter of intent and the right to make the decision.
e.g., if I break in to your home and steal a sack of garbage, it’s still felony breaking and entering and burglary – even if you intended to throw it out. It isn’t your decision to make.
If, in fact, the mother didn’t want to “throw out” her unborn, that makes it worse. But it’s still her choice to make, and no one else’s.
A related question I see in some of the anti-abortion posts is whether a couple who is unwilling to carry a pregnancy to term should have sex. Consider:
All forms of birth control, including sterilization, have failure rates.
There is no practical way for a third party to determine if an unwanted pregnancy is a result of not using birth control, using birth control incorrectly, or is a genuine BC failure.
A belief that abortion is not a viable way of taking responsibility for an unwanted pregnancy seems to say that only couples willing to carry a pregnancy to term should have sex.
I don’t really understand this position. I also see it implied in alot of pro-life posts, but I’m not sure how widespread the belief is among abortions foes. Any comments?
It is remarkable insulting for people to frame pregnancy as a failure to “think” before you “play.”
I suspect it’s just a lot easy to be sanctimonious when you can frame all unwanted pregnancies as being the result of a bunch of careless morons with no self control.
I do think it’s beyond strange that we have this thread, now, started by someone who hasn’t been around for more than 11 days. Some of these same exact things were discussed in Homer J Simpson’s recent thread–for example, the occurance of regret. What, is the debate not good enough unless YOU start it?
Since we’re going over old old ground, here’s a question to answer: if human life begins at conception, why don’t we have funerals after early miscarriages?
You can declare abortions evil and wrong and eliminate them as soon as you can figure out how to enable people to have as much sex as they want to and never have to be pregnant involuntarily without resorting to abortion.
It is a bigger evil by far to force people to remain pregnant against their will. And a bigger evil even than that to condone a situation that establishes and enforced polarized oppositional double-standard sexual attitudes.
You know what? You don’t have to make lame guesses in Great Debates. Finding out some facts beforehand is not just welcomed, it’s encouraged.
In about three minutes of reading, I learned that in two states, abortion providers are specifically required by law to tell women about the possible link to breast cancer. Granted, the American Cancer Society and other reputable cancer institutes think the jury is still out on the findings.
That doesn’t mean abortion is wrong. That just reinforces what (I hope) everybody knows (some people don’t seem to acknowledge it): having an abortion is an extremely difficult choice and is not an action lightly undertaken.
Yep. It’s as if I were to go skiing, and break my leg, and then someone tells me I must “take responsibility” by not having a doctor set and splint the bone!
Heh, seems a pretty weak debate. “ABORTION IS WRONG”! That’s it! No argument! I’m not listening “neener neener neeeener”.
Sheesh.
We can debate until the cows come home. In the end, the freedom of abortion should always be there. It’s your own personal choice if you’re going to use it or not. Hell, driving is a choice and I’m sure more people die in driving relationed mishaps than abortions (figuring all fetuses are people). Should be outlaw driving?
Hell, why don’t no-choice people restict all dangerous activites including sex, driving, guns, skiing, parachuting etc? Seems a better way to “save lives”.
YES! The slut has to PAY for what she has done! How dare she be allowed to enjoy sex without being forced to incubate any zygotes that may have accidently be created as a result to full term!
In these abortion discussions I always talk about numbers and discrimination in poorer countries like my own.
Its very easy to talk about banning abortion when your middle class and can afford an illegal abortion more easily. The numbers of deaths and complications associated with Illegal and self induced abortions in Brazil are very big. Illegal abortions kill tens of thousands of women. Its a major health risk that is totally unnecessary if we had legalized abortion.
Arguments like taking responsibility fall apart when you consider that:
Most of these women have very low educational levels
Religious family TEND to NOT teach sexual education nor do schools.
Even when informed and trying to use birth control methods… financial limits and inexperience stop them from effectively preventing pregnancy.
In the end… making abortions illegal only stops very few from going ahead and terminating pregnancies. You are just creating an underground market for less than responsible doctors. You are forcing poor women to risk their lives. Is it fair that the girls with money are able to get decent, thou illegal, abortions ? The ones that do die are the price to be paid so that society can feel “cleaner” about their religious convictions ? Saving a few babies at the cost of many mothers is worth it ?
I understand the aversion to abortion… its not a “nice” thing. Still its a religious choice up to a point and forcing upon others your own beliefs isnt my idea of good.
Thanks.