Tinkering with the BCS

Here’s how I would do it: Each confernece gets its own official bowl:
Big East:Fiesta
MAC:Motor City
Big 10:Cotton
Big 12:Orange
ACC:Peach
SEC:Sugar
Pac-10:Rose
WAC:Holiday
MtWC:San Diego
C-USA:Music City

Unless you’re #2, you go to your conference’s bowl, opponent is an at-large team, Notre Dame goes to bowl of #2 team if #1, and vice-versa. All conferences play an even # of regular season games (no .500 teams bowl eligible), all conferences play a title game. Bowls not involving conference BCS reps pick own teams, regardless of conference affiliation. All D-I conferences enter BCS, Cotton Bowl joins the rotation of title game sites (each city 2x/decade). Quality wins bonus points extended to top 25 teams. Bonus points won/lost for title game result based on conference strength (ex: Marshall gets less bonus than Oklahoma). National title game participitants must have won conference title game.

Foooooootball? I sat here and waited for five minutes for a thread about football?

There is no justice.

eh, your thread title could use a little work there, eric m’dear

:smiley:

What else did you think BCS meant, Duck?

Anyway, where do the independants fit in? Obviously, they are not going to be conference champion.

Agreed, DDG.

My thoughts while the hamsters labored were “BCS??”" “Book of Common Stupidities?” “boron carbide servers?” “Brethren of the Common Shrew??”

Well, frankly, I was expecting some kind of “Politics”, or “Religion”, or “Economics”, or even “Science” discussion, because that’s frequently what it turns out to be when you can’t tell from the thread title.

You know–the stuff of which Great Debates are made.

< snerk >

:smiley:

Duck Duck Goose, sports debates are great debates.

Legitimizer #1

Get rid of any automatic tie-in due to conference championships. No one should get in based solely on winning a conference. Right now a BCS bowl participant can be well out of the BCS poll rankings.

Or even better:

Have an NCAA championship (right now there isn’t one). Of course this would require a playoff (heard this before?). This would eliminate the basic flaw with college football: At the start of each year there are a very real number of teams that have absolutely no shot of winning the national championship (in every other sport this is not the case).

The way I would run things:[ul]* 16 team tournament: (all conference champs plus at-large teams) seeded (and at-large teams selected) by a BCS-like rankings system.

  • Cut the non-postseason schedule back to 11 games a year (no more, no less).
  • Eliminate all “early” games. i.e. kickoff & pigskin classic.
  • The season runs from the first week of September through the last week in November (12 weeks to play 11 games).
  • One week off prior to the 4 week playoff with the championship the first week in January
  • Some bowls still exist to pick up teams not invited to the tournament (like the NIT)[/ul]In my opinion this would:[ul]* Generate more revenue than either the bowl system or even the NCAA basketball tourney.
  • Eliminate the almost yearly cry over unfairness in the bowl selection system
  • Give the mid-majors a chance (a very slim one but this is a better shake than they now get) to play for it all.[/ul] However there are several obstacles: [ul]* People keep playing the “tradition” card (like football is somehow better because there is often controversy about who gets to play for the championship (which isn’t even an NCAA championship).
  • Some people claim that it is a bad thing that you get rid of a system where half of the bowl teams could end the year on a winning note. :rolleyes:
  • The last thing the BSC conferences want is to more equitably “share the pie” with the little guys, even though it would probably be a much bigger pie.[/ul]

Also keep in mind that division I college football is the ONLY NCAA sport that doesn’t have a playoff system of some sort which is used to determine the champion.:rolleyes:

I agree with nearly all of Threadkiller’s post. 16 teams is the right number and all conferences should be able to send their champion. Right now MAC, WAC, Mountain West, and Conference USA really don’t have a shot at making the national title game.

I would have round 1 be a week before Christmas. Then round 2 would be on New Years Day, with the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and Cotton Bowls being the quarterfinal round. Round 3 would be the weekend or two after New Years with the Fiesta and Citrus being the semifinal round. Have the national title game the last weekend in January at a new site (hey,how about Detroit? Then I could go see it)

As far as the existing BCS formula, I’d tweak it to put more emphasis on strength of schedule. Teams like Florida State and Miami from weaker conferences have to get up for only a few games each year while parity conferences like the Big 10 and Pac 10 tend to beat each other up.

I stayed away from going more than a week into January since there are some people who complain that this would cut into the January semester too much for the football players. :rolleyes:

I have yet to hear the same people complain that NCAA basketball covers parts of two semesters.

If college basketball and hockey players can play over different semesters, so can the football players. I’d like to revise my schedule so that the title game gets played on Martin Luther King Day. A lot of people have that day off, and most years you’d have the college championship one weekend and the Super Bowl the next. Everybody wins- the NCAA gets a boatload of money, the Dr. King Day gets a lot more attention, and football fans get a month of utter bliss.

Thanks for not pointing out an obvious contradiction in the OP. (reread it, not hard to find). BTW, Like MSU 1978’s idea!

What could be more primed for debate than selecting a champion in NCAA football? :wink:

I’m personally curious about:
[ul]
[li]Why erictelevision would have the Fiesta be the official bowl of the Big East.[/li][li]When people in this thread reference the conference champion, are they talking about the best win/loss record in regular season, or the winner of a (now required) conference championship game?[/li][li]How to fairly deal with the independents.[/li][li]Why MSU 1978 relegates the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and Cotton to the quarterfinals, but lifts the Citrus and Fiesta to semifinals.[/li][li]Why MSU 1978 suggests that FSU plays a weaker conference schedule than Big 10 teams, when the ACC is a stronger conference (at least, this year, according to Sagarin, [and the Big East isn’t far behind]).[/li][li]Why people complain about student-athlete’s being impacted by drawing the season out, when we are only talking about a couple of teams.[/li][/ul]

Here is how I would approach it:
[ul]
[li]Let the national championship game rotate between the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and Fiesta, much as it does under the BCS.[/li][li]Let the participants to the national championship be determined by an eight team playoff, with one of the other three major bowls rotating out of a semifinal position each year (let’s say the one that hosts the national championship the previous year, moves back to a quarterfinal the next).[/li][li]Three other bowl games are selected to serve as quarterfinal venues, determined through some process (like the Cotton, Peach, Citrus, etc.).[/li][li]Let the eight team participants in the quarterfinals be determined much like the BCS determines the top eight today. Such decisions are finalized after the first Saturday in December (to allow for conference championship games).[/li][li]All other bowls can choose from the remaining teams much like they do today, either through conference affiliations or by committee, with invitee’s selecting their bowl by criteria of money, exposure, or whatever.[/li][li]Let the quarterfinals be played the Saturday on or before Christmas.[/li][li]Semifinals played New Years Day.[/li][li]Championship games played whenever the TV network that has rights to the game determines, but before January 15th.[/li][/ul]

Yes, some teams would probably never have a chance to win the championship at the beginning of the season. If a smaller conference school goes undefeated, but still can’t make the BCS eight, I say, tough. If they want to compete for a national championship, they better schedule Top 20 non-conference opponents. If they don’t do that, I have no sympathy.

This system also tries to keep the bowls as happy as possible. No “new” national championship games displace the existing bowls. Just like today, each of the four major bowls is guaranteed to host the championship once every four years. Some of the other bowls are guaranteed to particpate in the playoff, at some point. And only two teams are impacted by extending the season.

On the other hand, we could simply abolish intercollegiate football as an unnecessary distraction from the business of universities of providing their students with a college-level and graduate-school education.

This would resolve the whole problem of “who is NCAA national football champion” in one easy step.

To answer AZCowboy:

I believe that over the long term, the ACC is less competitive than the Big Ten. How many years was FSU in the conference before they lost a single game? One could argue the merits of FSU vs. Big Ten teams, but the utter dominance of one team for so long indicates a lack of overall parity. Perhaps this year is a sign of that tide turning, perhaps it is an anomaly. After all, Maryland won the ACC last year. Perhaps the league is catching up.

I would relegate the four traditional New Years Day games to quarterfinals for the simple reason of tradition. You have the Rose Bowl Parade every New Years, nobody wants to change that. The four traditional bowls should stay on New Years, thus we need 8 teams to play them, thus they are quarterfinals.

The conference champion need not be decided in a championship game. The conferences can choose their own champ however they want.

You deal with the independents by putting them in a pool with the conference non-champions. Rank them by a formula similar to BCS, take whatever fills up the field of 16. Most of the big power conferences might field two teams, some might even get three spots. But 16 teams lets the MAC and WAC get a shot where they currently get frozen out of the BCS.

Apologists (in this case of the bowl system) don’t need much of an issue to register a complaint.

Why do you only go with 8 teams?

Why not include conference champions?

I would have to check on this (read: the following is only in my opinion) but I think your system would not satisfy NCAA requirements for a championship. You are (potentially) excluding conference champions from championship play. I see this as fundamentally wrong. Even the “play-in” system used in (at least) men’s basketball and women’s volleyball would be far more preferable.

Oh please, poly. You’re a better poster than this. What you are doing is the equivalent of the ijits who drive buy in a CS thread about Star Trek and say “You people should turn off your TV’s and read a book!” If you don’t have anything to add but condescension, don’t post.

OK, back to football. I think the best balance is going to be achieved through a pretty simple compromise. No one is going to want to give up the conference championship games and there is no fair way to decide the top teams without a 32 team playoff, which is just too long for the season. We also don’t want situations where the best team in the nation somehow gets ranked third and left out of the championship, which could easily happen with the present system.

What we do is add one game. Just one. The BCS bowls rotate each year for a 4 team playoff, the teams decided by poll rankings, just as the 1 and 2 are now. So if it was held today, 1 Oklahoma plays 4 Texas in the Fiesta, 2 Ohio State plays 3 Miami in the Orange, and the championship is played in the Rose. The Sugar gets screwed this year, but still gets good teams. Next year the Rose would be left out and it rotates like that every year.

By taking the top four teams we give the system a little bit of give so that we are more likely to have a true national champion rather than one chosen on the whim of sportswriters, which still sometimes happens today.

When/where is your extra game?

I think you are talking about something like this:

I googled a bit but couldn’t find a site, so the following is offered as is. I’m pretty sure I heard this in the news a month or so back but couldn’t tell you when, where, and in what context. When the current BSC agreement expires in two (?) years they are going to add one more game after the four BCS bowls as a final title game. This would eliminate the ranking system now in place in rotating bowls. The idea is to 1) eliminate title game controversy and 2) make the “lesser” BCS games more attractive. I could be inadvertantly blowing smoke but I though I heard it.

I hate to post so many “facts” without a site of some sort but this thread is bringing out the worst in me.

In case you couldn’t guess by reading this thread I loathe the BCS. I rabidly cheer on any scenario that makes them look bad (I’m not alone). Things were looking good this year until this past weekend when four undefeated teams bit the dust to lend some clarity to the BCS picture. After lucking out year after year they should add an “R” to “BCS” so they could then be the Big Collective Sigh of Relief.

I accept your point as valid, although I’m not convinced intercollegiate football is a distraction to a University’s underlying mission. While I wholeheartily agree with this line of thought in regards to public high school athletics, it is certainly grist for another thread.

Ah, therein lies the rub. When designing such a system, it would not be appropriate to design constraints to simply address vagaries that happen to exist today. Lord knows, conference affiliations can change over time, impacting the “competitiveness” of any given conference. (wasn’t there a time in the Woody Hayes days that Ohio State dominated the Big 10? Four consecutive Rose Bowls, winning 17 straight conference games twice, from '67 to '79 winning or sharing the conference title every year but one, going undefeated in the conference in '68, '70, '73, '75, and '79 …). Was that any evidence that the rest of the conference was very competitive, generally? Or, like FSU, they could pretty much have dominated any conference in the same period of time. See my point?

Thanks for the reasoning on how you had the four major bowls as quarterfinals - that really helps me understand how you got there - the simple reason of tradition.

Perhaps I’m naive, but I suspect the Bowls are more interested in preserving their prestige and money than tradition. Granted, having the Rose Bowl on any day besides New Years would seem odd, but… Having the four major bowls accept a position where they are guaranteed NOT to get the national championship game, and where the interest and prestige in their game is likely to be diminished over the current situation, seems very unlikely to me. (of course, I’m not sure if we are actually trying to suggest practical solutions, or blank-slate solutions).

I also now understand your desire for the 16 team field, to accomodate the independents and smaller conference champions. The only way I would see that working is for the smaller bowls to fill up the round of 16 games, a week before my proposed near-Christmas quarterfinals.

Threadkiller, Why only eight? Because that is all that is necessary. Most years, you could easily get by with four. Eight actually has two advantages - it lets the smaller conference schools have a better chance to participate. Take Fresno State last year, had they gone on to win all their conference games, after beating their non-conference opponents Colorado, Colorado State, Oregon State, and Wisconsin, I’m sure they would have ranked in the top 8 in the BCS, and gotten an invite to the Tourney. They would have earned it. Unlike Tulane in '98, when they went undefeated, but played a non-conference schedule of SMU, Navy, Rutgers, SWLa, and La Tech.

And why not include the conference champions? Because there are only eight slots. Take the ACC this year. If FSU doesn’t lose a conference game (wins the conference), but has lost to Miami, Louisville and Notre Dame out of conference, why should any ACC school have the “right” to play for the national championship? Why shouldn’t both Texas and Oklahoma play in the final eight tournament, instead of FSU?

And quite clearly, the NCAA does not have a requirement for a championship, or football would already be in violation (and whatever changes would be made certainly wouldn’t be more of any such violation).

The comparison to other sports fall apart when you consider the few games football plays overall - and the physical nature of the game.

On preview: If you don’t like my eight game system, I think Beeblebrox’ four game system could work too.

And Threadkiller, while the BCS is imperfect, I think it is a dramatic improvement over the prior situation.

In your hypothetical system, yes. Sixteen teams expands the field to allow inclusion of every conference champion plus virtually every deserving team. Or, at least, pushes the “deserving” argument back a ways.

But is it really fair to tell Fresno State, Tulane or any other school that, no matter what, you will not win a national title. Judging the “quality” of a team strictly on who they have played (not quite true, but with the overbearing “strength of schedule” bias in the BCS practically so) is just plain flawed. Let the teams decide it on the field!

You misinterpreted my statement (or wild guess :slight_smile: ): *
Where* the NCAA has a championship (college football division IA doesn’t) they require inclusion (I think) of conference champions in the tourney.

Divisions IAA, II and III all have playoffs that function perfectly well, they play the same on-field rules as IA and have roughly the same length of season. One of the bullet points in my first post above would shorten the regular season to 11 games. Currently (counting a bowl) it is possible to play 15 games in one season.

I see it as fundamentally flawed. It was established by the “power” conferences, for the power conferences and the few concessions granted to the “mid-majors” have followed the threat of legal action and/or congressional involvement.

Most of the suggestions here aren’t really “tinkering” with the BCS but rather dismanteling it. The BCS and the bowls are bound by contracts until 2005, I think. Virtually every player and fan wants a true playoff system, and the best way for that to happen is for the BCS to deliver controversy year after year.

In the meantime let’s talk about the now non-existant playoff system. CArry on.