Tipping the "to-go" person

In My Humble Opinion
81

The New Guy - apparently you haven’t worked for $2.13/hr and recieved, more often than not, a “check” with a big “This is not a check” stamped across it and a total of $0.00 due to all of your “wages” going towards paying taxes. When you have NO money left after the government takes its cut, that can pretty much be considered working for free. This happens pretty often to servers, and is the sole reason that there is a $2.13/hr minumum wage for tipped employees to begin with - so the government can be sure to get its cut.

Aas an aside - at my restaurant, the servers have to tip out 3% of their total sales as a “tipshare” for hosts, bussers, and bartenders, who also recieve $2.13/hr. That means that when you stiff the server for their tip, they are actually having to pay for you sitting in their section. Most of us are poor college students, who are trying to make ends meet and can’t afford to be paying other people out of their own pocket because you got upset.

Let me spell this out for you in an application to another business structure. Let’s say you’re a distributor of vitamins. You have 25 cases of the current batch of Mens Plus formula left, the next batches aren’t due for a week, and you get faxes overnight from two of your clients placing orders. One client, “Client A”, orders from you on a weekly basis, and always places large orders. In effect, they help keep your company running. The other client, “Client B”, orders small orders from you, sometimes every few weeks, sometimes every few months. Due to their small orders and spotty ordering routine, they don’t do much for your business. Anyways, the faxes you recieved stated that “Client A” needs 20 cases of Mens Plus formula, and “Client B” needs 10 cases of Mens Plus formula. Would you be more likely to short “Client A” so “Client B” could have their full order, or vice versa? You would give “Client A” their full order, and “Client B” only half of what they ordered, because “Client A” provides much more support to your business overall, so you return the favor.

Is that so hard to understand?

Just to clarify - I assume you’re talking about if the to go server is just piddly farting around and not working on your order, correct? Please don’t take it out on them if the kitchen has messed something up and it takes a few minutes to get it right. Say, fr’instance, you wanted your chicken to be grilled with no seasonings. The server rung it in correctly, but the kitchen didn’t notice it on the ticket (which happens much more often than you’d expect). The server rang in your order in enough advance time that they’d have just enough time to bag it before you got there, so it would still be nice and warm. They notice about two minutes before you arrive that your chicken was seasoned, though it wasn’t supposed to be, so they get the grill guy to grill up a new breast correctly, which takes about ten minutes. Thus, you have to wait about ten more minutes for it to be grilled and properly bagged, but it’s not the server’s fault. Please don’t decrease their tip if it’s something that truly isn’t their fault.
Also, in addition to Even Sven’s minute for minute countdown, let me point out a few things that the to go person (at my restaurant, at least) does for you that the server doesn’t have to do:

  1. Bag everything separately so that hot foods are insulating each other, cold foods are insulating each other, and your ICE CREAM dessert is quadruple bagged so it isn’t a complete mess by the time you get around to eating it.

  2. Make sure that your sauces for your breaded grill items are separate so you don’t have a bready mush by the time you get home.

  3. Fold each paper bag so it doesn’t unfold itself and lose heat/coolness, but you don’t have to tear stapled bags apart to get to your food when you get home.

  4. Bring your food, and then your credit card receipt to your car so you don’t even have to get out of it or off your phone.

  5. Explain the menu to you when you call and want “a chicken dish with pasta”, or don’t have a clue as to which side item or salad you want, since you don’t have a copy of the menu in front of you.

Pretty much, what I’m saying is that you are utilizing the to go service because you, for whatever reason, want the food from a better quality restaurant, but you don’t want to spend an hour in the restaurant. The To Go person makes sure that you have the taste and quality of the restaurant wherever you decide to eat, whereas the normal server makes sure you have that taste and quality in the restaurant. In effect, the To Go person is making sure you are just as happy with your food just as the normal server does, so why choose to tip one and not the other?

82

I think you missed my bigger point. Nearly every job I’ve worked, food service or otherwise, there has been inadequate staff. It’s a problem in more than just the restaurant industry.

83

I don’t know what you mean.

You’re right, I have never worked for $2.13 an hour and been taxed at 100% rate. That’s very interesting. I never knew that people at the bottom bracket of the tax structure were taxed at 100% rate, because normally they’re not taxed at all. I would have thought that if the withholding took your entire paycheck, that you would get that amount back when you file your tax return. That’s very interesting that you don’t; I’d be interested to hear more details about exactly how such a thing transpires. It’s also interesting that you would get no tips at all, and have such a low paycheck. How does that happen?

I see what you’re saying. You would actually lose money on the tipping, IF your actual tips were less than 3%. Is that the case? Are your actual tips less than 3% of total sales?

That’s why I never stiff the server. The only time I wouldn’t leave a tip would be if the service was piss-poor (and I mean if the service was poor - I don’t punish the server if the cook took too long to make my food), and that’s happened very few times in my life.

At any rate, I’m sorry they treated you so poorly at whatever job you had where they were doing that stuff. I’ve know servers who actually made pretty good money. But I still don’t see how filling someone’s to-go order more slowly, or giving them fewer condiments, is going to rectify whatever awful situation is present at your job.

I think you missed MY bigger point. The fact that your job sucks and it’s hard to find a new one is not the CUSTOMER’S fault.

84

I think what I am saying just completely whooshed you. Any tipped employees are quite prone to be taking home NO money from their employer, due to their declared tips causing the government to feel that the person owes at least $2.13 for each hour they worked. In effect, the tipped employee works not for their employer, but rather for their customers, as the tips they recieve are what they pay their bills with.

For each specific table that does that, yes. Overall, no. BUT, for that table that stiffed the server, the server is having to “tipshare” money that they earned from another table to cover the unhappy one, thus costing them money overall.

None of us have specified that we deliberately fill orders more slowly just to get back at the person. However, we do prioritize based on which current “employer” (customer) is paying us the best rate. I believe that if you had two jobs, both of which took an equal amount of your time, but one, for instance, payed you $50 for an hour of work, whereas the other payed you $5 for an hour, you would prioritize the $50 one, and complete the $5 one as time allowed, would you not?

TygerD

85

I’m not currently working as a server. And, my job doesn’t suck.

When did I say it was the customer’s fault?

I’m saying that it is reasonable but unrealistic to expect management to provide a decent wage to servers. It isn’t done in many industries.

It’s harder for servers because of the tip-outs and the taxes. $2.13 an hour should be illegal.

If your attitude is that “you should all get better jobs” then who do you think will be left to wait on you? Someone has to work those jobs. What kinds of people do you think should work those jobs, then? For what group of people are the conditions you describe acceptable?

86

I think what jsgoddess is trying to say here is that in certain situations, one is taxed based on the sales that one makes (in addition to tax on the $2.13/hr), under the assumption that at least x amount of tips are made on those sales, since the government has no real way of knowing the actual amount the server made and thus what to tax them. In the case of one making a sub-minimum wage who fills to-go orders for which you do not tip, the server pays tax on your sale, the government’s assumption is not correct, and the server is taxed on income they did not receive.

That said, I don’t know of any establishments that operate on this system. I’m under the impression that most restaurants now require their servers to declare what they made in tips, and taxes are taken out of that amount, which is again in addition to the tax on the $2.13/hr. So, the effect of not tipping a sub-minimum wage employee who works under this system is essentially identical: they pay tax on their $2.13/hr no matter what, as well as tax on the sales they made to you, and they don’t receive income for that sale if you don’t tip them; thus you cost the server money.

You misunderstand. One is not taxed at 100% on the $2.13/hr, but one IS taxed on either the tips one declares or the sales that one makes. Often the amount you owe the government exceeds the amount you made at your hourly $2.13, so they take your check for tax and you get a $0.00 check. Does this make sense to you?

Also, for the record, I agree it is not the customer’s fault that employees are generally not paid an amount sufficient to motivate great service on to-go orders without extra incentive. It is also not the customer’s fault that it is incorporated into law that these people must depend on tips to make a living wage. However, this is the society that we live in, and the government expects you to shoulder that burden. You can refuse, but you are then punishing the wrong person. You can tell the waitstaff to get better jobs 'til you’re blue in the face, but you could much more easily just stop frequenting businesses whose practices you disagree with, and thereby not fuck over employees of that business who have no control over the law. shrug

87

Dammit, that’s what I meant.

Also, and more importantly, I just realized that this is the dumbest thing I’ve ever said, because tax on $0 is $0. So then I guess under this system you would not be costing the server money in the literal sense*, but you would be taking up time they could be using to serve people who pay the remainder of their so-called wage.

*(assuming they’re not tipping out a percentage of sales to hosts/bussers/etc; not a great assumption for an actual server but a reasonable one for a bartender)

88

Well, the fact that you continue to go to a restaurant that doesn’t staff correctly and doesn’t compensate it’s staff enough to attract excellent workers who will go the extra mile to stay on isn’t my fault. My job is to do exactly what my managment expects of me. And my concern is making my living, not providing some sort of great service to people out of the goodness of my heart. Denny’s wasn’t going to help me if I got cancer and died because I didn’t have health insurance or if I got kicked out of my home because I couldn’t pay rent because they cut my hours. I certainly wasn’t going to care too much if they loose a customer now and then because my punk ass was grubbing for tips. A work ethic is one thing, but being a sucker is another.

If one guy is paying me and the other guy isn’t and managment doesn’t care either way, it’s not a hard choice. At my restaurant it was so busy and chaotic that nobody could take of everything perfectly. There was going to be a loser no matter what I did- if it was humanly possible I really did try my best to give the most attentive and speedy service I could because I enjoyed the personal satisfaction of making people happy. But people decended off the freeway and into my restraunt in waves of literally hundreds of people. There was just no way to serve them all well. So I had to pick the winners and the losers and tips was a part of that.

89

Why is this so hard for The New Guy to understand? (There’s a joke in there somewhere but I’m not that cheap. :D)

And on that note, I think The New Guy is a bit hung up on the whole “does this solve the PROBLEM?” conundrum.

Fact is, I never claimed to care about solving the problem. Feel free to scroll back and look at all my posts in this thread; I never once claimed that I was trying to solve anything, other than my need to make rent money. I am not trying to come up with a solution to anything; I already know what the solution is anyway.

The solution is for restaurants to pay people a realistic wage for things like to-go orders.

Barring that, which was/is not going to happen regardless of what I told my boss (and I am amused at your Pollyanna notion that somehow if my boss just KNEW people weren’t tipping me, he’d do something about it, or that I should make a grand gesture and quit my job in the name of Customer Service), my only goal was to make as much money possible while at work.

If that means that somebody who’s tipped me three bucks a round is going to get their next round before Mr. To-Go-Order gets his cheese sticks, so be it. Welcome to the wonderful world of capitalism. I don’t go to work to perform random acts of human kindness.

“Giving less service to people who don’t tip” is not a SOLUTION.

It’s reality.

Welcome to my world, my dear.

90

But isn’t this the whole reasoning behind tipping in America? “They get paid fuck all so we shall tip them”

Do Americans see tipping as so entrenched that if wait staff got a wage increase they would contunue to tip? Why are ‘bussers’ (table cleaners?) not worth a tip? Are waitstaff/barstaff/hairdressers (WTF!) the only low paid employees who get a tip?

I thought America was egalatarian. Shouldn’t employers be forced to front up wages rather then making the customer do it for them?

I have no problems with leaving a dollar or two in a tip, I just would hate to think that my tip affected the real income of the wait person.

Real jobs deserve reliable money from employers not maybe money from customers.

91

For those of you responding to The New Guy believing that he missed your point, I think that you missed his point. He is correctly saying that you are only losing your entire $2.13 per hour paycheck because you are making so much in tips. In other words, the fact that you lose your “entire paycheck” in a society with an average tax rate that is probably somewhere in the 20-30% range means that you are making considerably more than that in tips, not that someone should be crying a river because you are going home at the end of the day without a paycheck.

92

no one was “crying a river”. the point of saying you don’t really get a paycheck was to illustrate that yes, someone who’s getting paid $2.13/hr to do your to-go order for which you do not tip is basically seeing no money for it, and thus is essentially working for free.

93

You still do not get it. You are only getting taxed that entire paycheck because you are making so much in tips outside of that paycheck. You are not “working for free” because that guy didn’t tip you. If everyone did not tip you, you would not be giving up the entire paycheck. You are therefore not working for free when someone does not tip you. You in fact do “see money for it,” in that you would be taxed on a greater tip base if he had tipped you something. Instead, for that person in particular, you are not giving up the portion entire of the $2.13 that you made for the time it took to serve him, only the taxable amount on that portion of the $2.13 (which is pretty minor).

94

Ummm… WTF? What you’re saying is that it is not costing the server money to do the order. That’s like saying that if you, for instance, make $30K a year, you’d be happy to take a pay cut to $20K so you wouldn’t have to pay as much on taxes. Where’s the logic in this, Slyfrog.

Also, I pose to you the question that I asked of The New Guy that he so conviently ignored:

TygerD

95

This isn’t how it used to work. I don’t know what the case is now, but it used to be that you got taxed on an assumed value of tips. You did not have to make the tips in order to get taxed on them.

96

There is a presumed minimum that the IRS uses as part of audits, etc. to basically keep some minimum level of honesty (or rather, keep some level of taxes coming in to offset the inherent dishonesty of tax payers). My memory is that it is around 8%, but that might not be exact.

Nonetheless, that really becomes the restaurant’s responsibility if you under report (again, from memory), which is why the restaurant is concerned that you fill out your tip declarations and not declare ridiculously low amounts.

I would imagine, however, that the non-waitstaff service items, such as to go orders, are not calculated into the mix. It would be interesting to know. That leaves me wondering if people are actually getting an unfair tax benefit on tips from to go orders.

97

I think you whoosed yourself. Your tips ARE part of your income, and you are required to declare them on your income tax. Saying you worked “for free” when you’re not including tip income is disingenuous at best.

I understand your point, but I disagree that it constitutes “working for free”. Unless you are claiming that you personally have to tipshare more than the actual amount of tips that you are getting, I find your argument specious.

98

Hmmm…I was going to continue responding to people, but now I see that Sly Frog has already set things straight for me. Thank you so much, Sly Frog. I think those of you who still don’t get it just don’t WANT to get it.

I’ll admit I was being a little deceptive when I asked why people were taxed at 100%. :wink: Of course I know that they aren’t; I was deliberately going along with the absurd premise that servers pay their entire income in taxes, just to flesh out the fact that certain people are arguing disingenously.

Nevermore - no, you’re still wrong. You ARE seeing that $2.13. What you were taxed on was your tips. That’s a dishonest argument. A certain amount is withheld from your check, but that amount is based on your ENTIRE income, and tips are part of your ENTIRE income. The tax was not taken out of the $2.13, it was taken out of your whole income.

Don’t have a tantrum; I didn’t deliberately ignore you. Do you expect me to respond, line-by-line, to EVERY word in this entire thread? If I don’t, does that mean I’m “ignoring” something? Could we be reasonable, please?

To respond - what makes you think I don’t tip for to-go orders? When did I ever say that I don’t? As for your argument, haven’t we done it to death already? The argument for not tipping is that tipping is for table service, and to-go orders don’t include table service. As I pointed out before, people don’t tip at McDonald’s for to-go service.

The argument for tipping to-go is that tips are part of the server’s job, and that the server is counting on tips to supplement his/her income. I think both arguments have merit. Some people tip for to-go food and some don’t. I don’t know what else to say on that.

99

Hmmm… just so I’m not “ignoring” people, I’d better respond to Large Marge:

Sorry, I used the colloquial “you” rather than the indeterminate “one”.

I wasn’t commenting as to whether or not you said that; I was telling you what my point was.

I disagree. As I said, I’ve know servers who make quite decent money. It’s not unrealistic at all.

I absolutely agree. But again, that’s not the customer’s fault (not that you said it was).

That’s a false characterization of my “attitude”. That would be clear to you if you read my entire comments, not just taking one sentence out of context.

If poor restaurant management is an intractable problem, as you seem to be arguing (and that’s a sidetrack I’d rather not get into), giving less than 100% effort to people who didn’t tip you for to-go food doesn’t solve that problem.

100

Worry no more. (I can’t imagine worrying about the “unfair tax benefit” of getting a couple of bucks on a to-go order, since we’ve already established that most people don’t tip, or tip very poorly, on them, but you go right ahead and worry about it.)

Servers and bartenders are taxed on their total sales. That includes to-go food. (At certain establishments it also includes merchandise, like T-shirts, which is even more of a rip-off.) I have never worked at a restaurant where the to-go orders were rung in as anything but server sales, which are presumed tipped and which are taxed accordingly.

Ergo, if I sell $200 bucks worth of to-go food, Uncle Sam assumes that I was tipped at least $20 bucks on it and I’m taxed accordingly.

If I were a server, I’d not only have to pay taxes on it, I’d have to tip-out 3% of it, which means it would COST me six bucks. On top of those taxes.

This is why in a lot of restaurants the bartender is the to-go person, because bartenders do not tip anyone out.

They still pay taxes, though.

So please, feel free to sleep at night.