No, I understand what the issue is. What I pointed out was that “working for free” is not an accurate description of that issue. If Audrey wants to say “working for less” or “working for no tip”, I wouldn’t object.
I got paid, as do most tipped jobs, $2.13 an hour. This is paid on the assumption that I will get tipped, as no reasonable person will work for two bucks an hour minus taxes on sales rung in. So whether you’d care to believe it or not, “not getting a tip” DOES equal “working for free” in the minds of anybody who works in the service industry. The paycheck on that two bucks an hour pretty much covers taxes. The reason that $2.13 is legal is b/c the government assumes you will get tipped for your labor. In fact, if you have lots more sales than tips, you end up owing taxes on it, which means it cost you to serve certain people.
No, not at all. Feel free. I don’t care about “the system.” I care about getting paid.
And like I said, I don’t care what the customers know. I’m not going to educate every single customer I have. And my boss was aware of the fact that half the people who order to-go don’t tip. He didn’t care. Why should I? Should I put on my Super Employee Cape and go out on a limb-for-free? Would you?
I never argued the facts. I go to work to make money; if I had nothing better to do, if the bar was slow, I got a to-go order as fast as it hit the deck. I wanted to get rid of them as quickly as possible so that in case I got busy, I wouldn’t have to deal with them. If I was making money elsewhere, I got to it when I could, unless they tipped me. I didn’t care what to-go people thought of my service; THEY DIDN’T PAY FOR IT. They paid for their food, and they got their food. That’s all they paid for.
I’m not arguing ethics here; to me that’s not even a question. They paid for their food and they got their food. How quickly they got it was the difference; if I gave them extra stuff (more bread, extra toppings, more condiments, etc.) was the difference. If someone waited fifteen minutes vs. thirty for their food is not, to me, an ethical issue; my bills don’t get paid on ethics. They get paid with cash, the same way I do.
And if you’re debating this while you’re at work, your entire posting history in this thread is a straw man. 
This thread is a trainwreck. I do not and will not ever tip on a to-go order that I’ve driven across town to pick up. Like others mentioned, I believe that a to-go order is inherently less physical work than waiting on me at a table. Puh-leaze, you’re complaining about having to put little packets into a bag? For FREE? That’s certainly easier than picking up after my four y/o has trashed the table (which I clean up to the best of my ability prior to leaving). C’mon. Does the feeling of entitlement ever end?
I tip for take out orders, but usually it’s not as much as when I sit down. In the 10-15% area.
My first reaction to the arguments made by even sven & Audrey Levins was “Get over it, do your job.” I thought about it for a few minutes, and changed my mind. I remembered my not-to-distant past of bartending. While tending the bar, it became pretty easy to divert attention to the customers who you know were going to be dropping more cash from the leeches who stuck you with a fifty cent tip the night before. If low-tipping loudmouth had to wait an extra few minutes for his hot wings, it’s his own damn fault.
There doesn’t appear to be an incentive for the staff to give attention to the to-go aspect of a restaurant. It seems to me that it’s a company decision designed to make the restaurant more money, without substantially increasing the cost of staffing. Same pay (actually, less pay) and more work. If that creates disgruntled employees, I can understand why.
Sometimes I wonder if I’m reading the same thread as some people.
Well, if I would have gotten an order from Audrey Levins, I would have been screwed. I always tip to go people (usually 10%ish, depending on size of order. Sometimes up to 30%, assuming they had to do a lot/carry a lot/arrange a lot), after they hand me the food. Heck, I’ve never seen someone tip a to go person before they were handed the food. I don’t tip regular waiters before they take my order, that logic makes no sense.
If the to go person has my stuff ready when I get there, it’s correct, and they are pleasant- I’ll tip them. If I have to sit and wait for 15 minutes while they talk with so and so or do whatever (when I called my order in two hours ago), then the tip is certainly going to be downgraded.
If I caught on to the fact that Audrey Levins was intentionally putting my second or purposely giving me bad service, then he (she?) probably wouldn’t get a tip from me when I got my food.
Actually it does. Tips use to be paid in advance so you would get better service then the common Joe.
That said I never tip in advance because I don’t know what the service is, but then again I might start as a experiment (again not of to-go orders).
I still would like to know from the people who work in the industry if the pay is exactly the same including tips and you would be serving the same # of customers would you rather just do table eat in orders or to-go orders?
I’m betting of on the to-go orders because though you don’t like to admit it they are easier, faster, and less complaints about the food which has to be redone.
Depends on the order. If it’s just a single hot entree, I’d rather have it to go. But if there are drinks, salads, desserts or a lot of sauces to deal with, I’d rather have it sit-down. The whole system is designed to involve putting stuff on plates, so to-go orders really gum up the works and are a pain in the ass. Plus, I enjoy human interaction.
You have mentioned these things time and again in this thread. You are basing your theory on the difficulty of preparing a to-go order on your personal anecdotal data from a restaurant that was obviously very poorly set up to handle to-go orders. Surely there are some restaurants that have the sauces all pre-prepared and sitting there right at a convienient location, don’t sell drinks to go, etc that make the to-go order quite easy.
I find Audrey Levins’ method perfectly acceptable. If she couldn’t fit my order into her schedule on a time frame that I found acceptable, then I simply wouldn’t order carry out from her restaurant anymore, and would mention to my friends who were asked what food they should bring over not to try getting carry-out from there. Eventually perhaps the boss would try to figue out what could be done to increase carry out business which is surely more profitable. That’s how the market works.
Then you’re not working “for free”. Case closed.
Thank you.
I would do my job. If the terms of my employment were unsatisfactory, I would bring it up with my boss. If my boss refused to treat me fairly, I would quit. I would not punish the customers simply because I was being treated unfairly by the boss. Actually, strike that. I might do that, because I admit I’m as fallible as the next guy. What I would NOT do is brag about it as though I were proud of what I did.
They paid for HOT food, which they probably didn’t get if you let it sit 'til you got around to it.
Now you’re saying you even went so far as to give them extra stuff for bribing you. IMO, that’s unethical too. The tip went into YOUR pocket, but the extra stuff you gave them came out of the COMPANY’S pocket.
No it’s not, because I already ADMITTED that what I do is unethical. Besides which, it’s the weekend, and I’m not at work. 
Cite? I’m 42, and never in my experience have tips been given in advance. If that were done in the 1960s and earlier, it would be outside my experience, but I somehow doubt it. Since, at a sit-down restaurant, you pay for the food after the meal, how would you even know how much to tip? It’s a percentage of the check, which you don’t have yet before you eat. The only time I’ve ever seen a tip given in advance was as a joke on “3rd Rock From the Sun”, where he puts a stack of $1 bills on the table as the “potential tip”, and begins removing them one by one whenever the waiter displeases him.
A tip is supposed to be a reward for good service, not a bribe to prevent bad service.
I agree. But it seems they’re taking it out on the wrong person. Bad business decisions are not the customer’s fault.
I agree, but ultimately, it’s the customer who suffers. We’re just getting a little behind-the-scenes look at the reasons why.
Your reasoning makes little sense to me. You’re basically saying that the server should pay for the owner/manager’s mistakes or they should get a job elsewhere.
This isn’t about one restaurant manager. And this is a theme that isn’t likely to change in the restaurant industry, or any other industry.
I called Time-Warner Cable last month with a question about my bill, and after having to push about 47 buttons just to get to the menu I wanted, I was then place on hold for 24 minutes before a surly, underpaid employee answered. When I asked why it took her 24 minutes to answer the phone, guess what she said? “Sorry, we’re short-staffed.” I got the same answer the month before. It wasn’t a temporary problem. Oh, and she wasn’t able to answer my question.
It’s happening everywhere. Are you seeing more mistakes in your local newspaper? Wanna take a guess why?
A long line at your bank or supermarket? Why don’t they call in more people?
When you call the police and it takes them 15 minutes to come, why do you think that is?
Yeah, it’s a nationwide problem. Very few companies are paying their employees what they deserve. They also aren’t training them properly to do their jobs. Know why? Cuz it’s CHEAPER. It saves the company gobs of money to not hire adequate staff. So what if the line gets a little longer. If the line is long at EVERY bank, where’s the customer going to go? Training costs money, too, and means time away from work, so if they can get by without it, they will.
If you want to punish employees who work for shitty companies, you’ve got a lot of work ahead.
Makes perfect sense to me. If you don’t like your job, get another job. I used to work at a cappucino bar. Some people tipped me, and some didn’t. I gave exactly the same service to every customer, i.e. the best and fastest that I was capable of. I appreciated the tips, and I thanked the customers for them, but I did not withhold my best efforts from those who didn’t tip. I deserved more money than I was making. My solution: I got out the classifieds and found a new job. When I quit, my boss begged me to stay, and I told him that he should have appreciated me when he had the chance.
I’m sorry, I’m not sure of what a better way to answer the question:
than a “personal acedote” based on an actual restraurant. I guess I will have to go search for some empiracle data regarding “what people who work in the industry” think.
New Guy, you are, IIRC, the only person I’ve ever met (online or IRL) who has seriously considered $2.13 an hour to be enough of a wage to be taken seriously.
Like I said, the only reason that $2.13 is legal is b/c the government assumes people getting paid that wage will get tipped on top of it.
It’s a bad call on the part of my ex-boss, and of restaurant managers everywhere, that they’d rather save payroll than pay someone a reasonable wage to do a job (to-go orders) they are very well aware does not pay. (Because trust me, like the manager who posted to this thread, they quite aware that to-go orders are not tipped very well or very often.)
However, I have always considered “get a new job!” a very condescending and ignorant response to someone’s job-related problems or complaints. It isn’t always easy to get a new job; bills have to get paid even if, as you say, “my boss refused to treat me fairly.”
FTR, I did eventually find a new job (at another bar that doesn’t serve food, thank God!) and I am happy not to work at that restaurant anymore. But it’s not like new jobs grow on trees, and you can just go out and replace your current one whenever you feel like it, the moment you’re unhappy at work.
As far as being “proud” of what I did re: to-go orders, perhaps you misunderstood. I didn’t post in this thread to boast about how crappily I took care of to-go orders. I told the truth: if my bar was busy, I took care of the people who were taking care of me, before taking care of those who didn’t. I don’t know if you’ve ever gone to a busy bar, but this is generally the Law Of the Land in any bar I’ve ever worked at or heard of.
I find it hard to believe that this is surprising or shocking or even hard to understand.
And I’m not even going to take seriously the “unethical” nature of giving away bread and condiments. Like soda refills, they are free; if you spin this around the other way, what on earth would you say to me if you asked me for extra mayo and extra ketchup and I tried to charge you? “Well, sir,” I might say, “the extra stuff you’ve asked for comes out of the company’s pocket, and I consider it unethical to give you more than two ketchup packets without first consulting with the owner of this business. I believe you are trying to convince me to steal for you.”
:dubious:
I have only one reply to that:
Strawman. I NEVER, NEVER, NEVER said “$2.13 an hour is enough of a wage to be taken seriously.” NEVER. All I said was that it’s incorrect to say you’re working “for free” when you’re not. “For free” means you are not getting any money whatsoever. Seriously, look up “free” in the dictionary. This is not that complicated.
So how is giving less service to people who don’t tip, a solution to that? You’re right, that WOULD be a condescending response to someone’s job-related difficulties. But that’s not how the response was given. I gave that response to you deliberately giving less service to people who don’t tip for to-go orders. If there’s a problem with the job, that is not the correct solution. In fact, it isn’t even a solution at all.
Had you said, “My boss is treating me unfairly, and I find it very difficult to get a new job”, and had I responded with “Get a new job”, then sure, that would be condescending. But what ACTUALLY happened was, you bragged about giving inferior service to people who don’t tip, and tried to fob it off on the fact that you’re overworked. Well if you’re overworked, it’s not the customers’ fault.
That’s certainly true; but again, does giving inferior service to certain customers solve that problem?
But you weren’t just giving it to people who asked for it; you were giving it to people because they gave you money, and you weren’t giving it to people who didn’t give you money.
And the fact that she is paying to serve you isn’t that complicated, either. She has to pay a percentage of her sales no matter what. She may lose money by serving you. That’s worse than working for free, innit?