Hey there. So we got a puppy who was born last August, so she’s over a year old. She’s VERY smart and EXTREMELY independent (stubborn). Altho my fiancee and I are good with dogs and have had several, we just can’t get her fully housebroken.
The problem is she KNOWS she shouldn’t go in the house but is so small she can find secret places to go. She knows “we go outside” and knows what “outside” means. She also will willingly go out “if she’s got the urge” but won’t go out otherwise unless I physically put her there.
I believe she’s a bit neurotic and has exhibited anxious tendencies that I attribute to higher intelligence. She also has a SERIOUSLY frustrating stubbornness. She’s sweet as can be but everything’s mostly on her terms.
She’s too clever: She’s discovered if she pees on the vent return, it’s not immediately noticed. She’s learned to poop under furniture where we can’t see. She’s also learned to stand behind doorways so we can see her in the act. If we do catch her in the act, we scold her and make her go out, then praise her for going outside. When we see her go outside, we are all praise. Basically we’ve been in a year-long puppy potty training mode.
TBH I feel like she’s just trolling me. She clearly knows better and comes up with a clever solution when we close off one of her little hidey poop holes. I feel like this job is above my pay grade and am seriously contemplating a professional. I’ve also considered putting cameras up so I can monitor her at all times, but do we have a pet or an incarcerated criminal?
Anyone have any clever advice? She’s too old to be constantly kept in a crate, and either sleeps in bed where we can keep tabs on her or put in her crate. She stays in the crate when we leave.
Crate, for feeding, at bedtime. They don’t like to shit where they eat and sleep. That’s all I got. Good luck. Unless you can catch them in the act and scold appropraitly, you are in for a long haul.
(My crew of 5 all have their own crates, and have for years. Age don’t enter into it, I think. It’s just their ‘santuary’ space.)
She’s a wee little mini schnauzer, and somewhat full breed. Our household is use two humans, Sal (a very old, very useless coon hound who has far outlived his expectancy) and Randy the kind-a-cat. My boy Doug died in February unexpectedly, so from October (Oct 15 2019) until February Doug was around, too. Doug passing so suddenly, with no warning, not being old–not being a decrepit geezer like Sal–really took the wind out of my sails (so no real offense to Old Man Sal…he just created a blindside that really broke my heart). Anyway, she’s the only one with crate requirements. She spends most of the time on the couch with one of us or right near me when I work from home, so during the day (at least during MY time on watch) she never goes in the house. She sleeps w the fiancee and gets up when she gets up about 3 hours before me for work. All the animals are her responsibility first thing in the morning, you know–as she makes coffee, breakfast, readies herself for the day, and takes care of everything while I keep sleeping. So it’s no surprise I always wake up to find poop from the morning’s chaos. But from then on she never goes because I keep tight wraps.
In the evenings when we are both home, Greta (the pup) goes into “play” mode and spends most of the early evening in the library playing on the vast carpet with her toys and the kind-a-cat. This is when she sneak poops.
During the later part of the evening, as we all wind down, she nestles on the couch.
There’s a great big “let’s all go out and get it all out for the night” rally before bedtime. Then they go out a few times in the night.
Typing this out, I’m realizing she really only poops in the morning chaos and the evening play-time.
We are not dog people, so I don’t know a bunch about doggie health. If Greta was one of our cats, she would have been to the vet over this a while back.
You have said Greta and the pup in the same sentence, how long does it take a mini schnauzer to mature? If she’s still puppy enough, she’s probably sneak pooping because she’s playing and having too much fun to go outside until its too late for her to get to the “bathroom”.
Well, you say she’s a year (and a bit), and I would say that it took Dylan Dog about a year before I could fully trust him so all may not be lost.
I’m no dog expert, but I assume you’re piling on the treats when she goes outside? It’s got a bit ridiculous in our house now, because Dylan (now aged 7) will go outside and come straight back in to ‘fool’ us into giving him a treat. Or he expects a treat if one of us goes out and comes back in. But we give in to these things because it does mean that, if he wants to go, he will defo go and stand by the back door, because why miss out on a treat?
We never scolded him for going indoors though. Think I read somewhere that it doesn’t necessarily help - they can’t make the connection or think it’s a game.
We used treats for pottying outside with our last two dogs and it worked amazingly well. Every time they’d pee we’d say, “good boy, good potty” three or four times and give them a treat. When they’d poop, we’d do the same thing only say, “good boy, good poop”. We always stayed outside with them until they did one of the two or both and gave them the treat immediately after they went - we didn’t wait until we were inside. It got to be that we’d say, “go poop” or “go potty” and they would do it on command most of the time. Eventually, we didn’t have to stand outside and wait anymore. Even when they were adult dogs and we were out for a walk and they’d poop, we’d always say, “good poop” and give them a treat.
We don’t have to escort Dylan to pee anymore, he’ll go out on his own, but then he comes charging back inside in great excitement because he knows he’s in for a reward. And we all screech and dance, squeeling ‘did you have a wee! Did you have a wee!’ and Dylan jumps up and down on his back legs and treats are had.
First of all, I’d change your attitude. It isn’t that she’s not “fully housebroken”, it is that she “isn’t housebroken”.
I’d start from scratch. Keep her in a crate, just big enough for her to barely turn around, 24/7 unless you are interacting with her. You can keep her leashed in the house so she can’t get into trouble. If you are interacting with her (watching her) and your phone rings, put her into the crate before you answer the phone. You want it to be absolutely impossible for her to eliminate indoors.
When you allow her out of the crate, take her outside (on a leash) and use a command for elimination (I use “go pee”). Don’t go back inside until some waste leaves her body, and treat her immediately (small treat) when she goes.
Keep this up until you go for days without inappropriate behavior.
As much as we are dog nuts (we own a dog boutique and grooming business) I really hadn’t considered potty treats.
Part of the problem is Sal–the aforementioned old-man dog–is incontinent and has frequent emergency pees. He’s CONSTANTLY needing to go out and you have to let him out ASAP or you’ll regret it. So Greta (the wee pup) isn’t at all on the same schedule.
Greta and I have been working on training (she can do Sit, Down, Shake, Up, etc) so she does respond to treat-training.
I’ve seen numerous sources report that small dogs of this ilk often take “AT LEAST” a year to potty train due to their tiny bladders and little guts. TBH, she’s my first little dog so I’ve got no experience. Last night after posting this thread, me and Mrs. were discussing the issue and surmised she might be signaling she needs out, maybe even running to the back door, and we’re not aware of it, so she just finds a spot to go. As @JaneDoe42 mentions, she probably isn’t super well versed in the sensation of needing to go, signaling that to us, all in good time to make it all work. Probably IS playing too much and has an “uh oh” moment.
We’re taking all this useful advice and are going to amend our routines, especially early morning and early evening during her rough-house/play times. I’m also considering getting a camera for the back door so maybe we can see if she makes a move that direction since there’s no line-of-sight.
I’ve seen articles that say they take longer to train because owners tolerate accidents more with cute little dogs than they do big dogs. And maybe the dog finds the house big enough that it’s easier to avoid one corner etc that they’ve fouled so they themselves are more tolerant of pooping or peeing where they live.
How would having small guts change anything? Your dog is adult cat-sized. One of my kittens came to me weighing 2.25lbs and he’s never had a single accident - and his guts are even tinier.
I don’t know, I’m not an animal biologist, I’m just going off what I’ve read.
According to some, their smaller bladders means filling up faster/needing to go more often/more urgency, which is indeed a biological side-effect of their small size. Another theory is that they have faster metabolisms and need to go more often/quicker that way.
At any rate, I’m fairly certain your cats go to the bathroom inside your house, just like my dog does, but you have a designated box.
Crate when you can’t see her, leash in the house at all times, never “let” her out to potty, always TAKE her out, on leash, to the same place. Praise when she goes.
Make sure the crate is small enough that she can’t just use one end for a bathroom.
Same as training a baby puppy, same as training a dog who’s never lived in a house before.
Because, due to your incorrect procedures, she now has a habit of going indoors, it will take longer than if you did all the right things from the get go. But she will learn, if you do not let up on the protocols.
The other thing is to never scold her for a mistake indoors. First of all, it is YOUR mistake, in handling, not hers. Second, it will only be confusing and scary, and she will either learn you are a randomly frightening person or to carefully hide where she goes. Not anything good. So just ignore any mistakes and vow to be more careful next time.
Also, clean any mistake sites with something like Nature’s Miracle Urine Destroyer so it doesn’t smell. Dogs decide where to pee by where they or other dogs peed before.
PS: I once had a puppy, out of all the pups and adults I successfully house-trained, who just would not learn. I had to give her back to the breeder (there were some other reasons). She was a working bred dog and went on to happily live in a kennel and manage a goat ranch. So it does happen. But rarely.
Have you thought about training her to use a bell at the back door? I haven’t done this (Dylan doesn’t need it nowadays), but I’ve seen friends have some success with this. Dylan just stands at the back door in silence waiting for us to notice him. If that fails, he starts quietly gruffing. It’s maddening, as the rest of the time he’s happy to bark his head off at anything. Luckily his bladder seems stronger than it used to be (he’s also a small dog - a maltese - notoriously hard to house train).
I don’t have any livestock in the house. 