It’s more like a caricature of the new student. I was half kidding, but it doesn’t come off that way, does it?
My irony meter just pegged.
Yeah, but in my experience the eggplant isn’t spoiled. The diner is. There really is a lack of respect for the institution and a kind of entitlement some students project. I don’t think is really the norm, nor do I think it’s anything new.
Thing is, you said you agreed with the OP, so I assumed you agreed that the folks linked to in the OP should be pitted.
If you want to pit the student in my math class who showed up 45 minutes late for class each day and then asked questions about material that had already been covered, I’m right there with you. If you want to pit the student in my children’s literature class who introduced herself the first day by saying, “I hate reading, except for the Bible,” I got your back. If you want to pit the student in my Elementary Social Studies class who, in the middle of a roleplay exercise, kept mumbling, “this is retarded!” and deliberately acting out of character because she thought it was cool, believe me, I’ll echo the pit.
There are terrible students out there.
But there are also terrible professors, and I think it’s silly to pretend otherwise, or to treat all gripes about professors as equal. Some gripes are bogus, sure–but others are perfectly legitimate.
Daniel
The key phrase there is some students. I know enough about food to know when the eggplant is rotten, and I daresay many other students do as well.
If you’re finding that it’s always the diner who’s spoiled, I think that says more about your bias than it does about the actual situation. The unbiased party will find that sometimes the chef is at fault, and sometimes the diner has an unsophisticated palate.
And it’s time to put that metaphor to bed. The unbiased observer will find that sometimes the professor is at fault, and sometimes the student has unrealistic expectations.
Daniel
Including the students referenced in the OP. I’m late and the instructor locked me out! is exactly the kind of petty, un-reflective self-centered behavior I’m talking about.
In these cases, to a one, it’s about students not respecting their instructors or their fellow students. It is only themselves they consider.
He was less than 60 seconds late; the prof’s response was entirely out of proportion to this level of tardiness. A proportional response would have been, “Mr. Smith, you need to schedule yourself to be here five minutes early if you have any questions about whether you can make it here on time. Next time you’re late, I won’t be so generous.” And then next time, knock some points off a quiz grade. Locking a student out of a class for being less than 60 seconds late is out of proportion.
And you agree likewise that the second linked thread (in which a student complains about a professor who disallows discussion of theories other than postmoderism and who gives them scribbled-on texts to photocopy) is self-centered, and the third thread (in which a guy who hasn’t been in college for 25 years asks whether eating is generally allowed in classrooms) is a student not respecting his professor or fellow student?
Daniel
I didn’t see one of those threads, actually, but students whining because they don’t like their professor’s opinions are lame. Professors are not reporters. They don’t have to be objective.
I was thinking more, “students who are late for class,” and “students who eat in class,” are rude, but what sets me off isn’t the tardiness and eating, it’s the defensiveness and sense of entitlement to do those things. I’ve let students eat in class, but they ask nicely first. They don’t feel it’s a right to eat in class.
Yes, but they DO have to encourage a spirit of intellectual inquiry and academic freedom in their classroom, or else they’re shitty professors. There’s a difference between having your own opinions and forbidding any other opinions.
I’ve got an online class with a professor who believes it’s insulting to refer to “disabled students” instead of “students with disabilities.” I think this is foolish, and have diplomatically given her my reasons for considering the previous phrase both respectful and linguistically preferable. Her response has been to thank me for the conversation and to tell me that she’d like me to consider her position, but that I may use either convention in my writings in the class.
THAT’s the appropriate attitude for an opinionated professor. If she told me that I was wrong and that I’d use her preferred convention or lose credit, I’d be pitting her, too.
The professor knows more than the student, sure–but the student’s not a blank slate on which the professor may scrawl wisdom. Professors who believe otherwise are arrogant fools.
Daniel
Bullshit. Their right to complain about bad treatment and asshole profs is not contingent on where the funds came from.
And the bit about student loans (emphasis mine) is preposterous. Who do you think ends up paying for those? Now that my student loans are in repayment, do I have the right to complain about the (thankfully few) bad professors I had? Would you say to someone who was complaining about a lemon car or a house that had undisclosed problems: “You can’t complain because you’re not really paying for it. The bank’s paying for it.”?
Good grief. I just read Trunk’s third link above, and realized that he started this pit thread because he got warned in that thread not to be such a jackass outside of the pit. Petulant much?
The cranky old man act is funny in the movies, but it’s kind of pathetic on the internet, Trunk. Word to the wise.
Daniel
Don’t you think part of the education you get in college is how to deal with all different kinds of people and situations? Students aren’t going to graduate into jobs that only have competent bosses who are mentally on the same planet, after all.
The college where I work only has great professors though, so I’m not sure. 
What a self-centered 19-year-old considers an “asshole prof” is usually “some guy trying to do his job,” and what a self-centered 19-year-old considers “bad treatment,” is often “being treated like an adult.”
I can’t get over Trunk’s shitty attitude in this entire thread. Who the hell is he, and why is any of this his problem? Who the fuck is he to tell people what to do, what to think, how best to spend their waking energies? Is he a professor? If so, I bet he’s a real dickhead of a professor, purposely cranky, brusque, rude, and out-of-touch, the kind that students have every justification in disliking. If not, then who is he? Someone who went to college 10, 20, 30 years ago? If so, here’s a fucking cookie. My hero. You’re a much better person than those young whippersnappers in college today, you ought to get a certificate of achievement. In fact, you’re a shining paragon of virtue for all of us. Go shut the fuck up, you holier-than-thou nitwit.
Yes, but what a self-centered 50-year-old considers a “self-centered 19-year-old” is usually “some kid working hard to get an education,” and what a self-centered 50-year-old considers “the entitlement generation” is often “folks who aren’t a member of the sanctimonious generation.”
And then, what a responsible 19-year-old considers an asshole prof is usually an asshole prof.
So where does that leave us?
Rather than speaking in idiotic generalities and contemptible stereotypes, we’re better off addressing specific cases. Like Trunk’s, which is a case of an arrogant blowhard acting petulant because he got a just warning for being a jerk in IMHO.
Daniel
Absolutely. Here’s two great strategies for dealing with difficult people:
- Go to a messageboard and vent about them, where it won’t get you in any trouble and lets you let off some steam.
- If they’re being really difficult, prepare a strong case, and go over their heads until you get some justice.
I was able to use the second strategy to great effect when I was a self-centered 18-year-old working a crappy restaurant job and taking classes on the side that I paid for out of my own pocket and the instructor was an asshole. (Admittedly the classes were aikido classes, but the principle holds: I went over his head to the administration and got satisfaction).
I’ve got nothing but respect for kids who learn how to work within the system to achieve justice, and nothing but contempt for blowhards who tell them to sit down and shut up.
Daniel
You’ve got the mental landscape of a four-year-old.
Why stop now?
That may well be the case. But why the fuck do you bring up who’s footing the bill as “In the first place…”?
As Left Hand of Dorkness pointed out, these cases can easily be judged on their merits. I knew when I was 19 the difference between a “hard but fair” prof and an asshole. I knew even though Mommy and Daddy were helping to pay for class.
I’ll agree with you 100%.
Having to deal with multiple professors some of whom are politically incorrect, unfair, lazy, poor communicators, and all the above is all part of preparing for the real world.
When you get into the real world you will have bosses and co-workers who are politically incorrect, unfair, lazy, poor communicators. What are you going to do then? 1) Learn how to deal with it, cope with it and make the best of it. Compromise and adjust. Or 2) become another whiny employee who says their company sucks and is unfair and want’s everything the way they think it should be run.
Part of the challenge of college was to figure out the profs, find what makes em tick, give em what they want, get the grade. Part of that was putting up with their ticks and strategizing on how to make the grade despite the obstacles.