You lost all right to talk about idiotic generalities when you posted these idiotic generalities.
Reading back to attempt to understand your position better, I realized that you are a grown up with children. I presumed from your attitude that you were a 20-year-old college student. I’m stunned that a grown up would still nurture such childishly simplistic views of authority.
Yep. I’ve had many incompetent Computer Science profs. One of them taught my Computer Science 2 and my Java class. She didn’t know how to do programs other than the way they were in the book. Oftentimes she didn’t actually know what the programs did either. Literally 85% of the time, if a student asked her (what I can see now, after getting my Bachelor’s) a basic question, she would tell the class she did not know the answer.
My Data Structures and Comparative Programming Languages professor was utterly horrible. He was possibly brilliant with things like Lisp, but when you’re teaching C++, that doesn’t help. He got into arguments with students over things we learned in CS1! If you defined a function initially as int myfunction(int x, int y); he firmly believed that if you typed “myfunction(a,b)” (with a and b defined as integers) in the main program, that it would not work. He refused to say he was wrong, even when students compiled code like that to show that it worked!
Sometimes a shitty professor is a shitty professor. And yes, I’ve had to listen to enough students whine about something that boils down to, “he expects us to WORK! That is SO not fair!” and I have no sympathy for them. But not every case is like that.
I have no problem sympathizing with those students who compalin that one of their professors is a poor teacher or doesn’t know the subject. But I have less sympathy to the complaints about having to be in class by a certain time and not being allowed to eat in class. These may be petty rules but the professor is the person in charge of the class. Students may not like it that the professor’s personal whims are being catered to rather than their own, but that’s the way it works.
So when people start saying “I paid a lot of money for this” I agree if they’re complaining about poor teaching. But if they’re acting like college is a Caribbean cruise and they’re upset because they’re not having fun, I’m less likely to sympathize.
No, you have a head full of feces because you aren’t even looking at our argument. You are fighting a red herring and not paying attention to OUR aruments. Quit combining our statements with those of which are apparently in your head.
Do you see anywhere in my argument that I am fighting for the rights of kids to eat fritos? You called LHOD a retard because he thinks grown up and mature students CAN and SHOULD stand up for their rights if they are wronged, not by calling the professor names, but by going up the right channels. (or by discussing it with the teacher in the first place)
Your red herring is “you don’t take it up the ass”, so therefore you are a retard eating cheetos and showing up late for class and are entitlement generation. Your argument is fallicious, and therefore shows you are not only full of feces, but spouting ignorance.
Yet this is exactly what YOU are doing…
What, you mean like his view that authority is not absolute, that adults in positions of authority abuse their power, take short cuts, or otherwise make errors in judgment? That there are valid channels to take to report said problems or abuses, and that doing so is a right and a responsibility? That childish and simplistic view?
Or is YOUR view childish and simplistic: Teachers are adults, you are not, they are right, you are not. Follow authority in all that they say and don’t make waves, because this is right. Big brother is watching you.
Yeah, because YOUR view is so much more mature.
Go flap your toothless gums and wave your cane at somebody else grandpa. Your ideas are outdated and pretty juvenile for such a paragon of ignorance fighting you seem to see yourself as.
Cite me anything in this thread or the myriad of similar threads that show LEIGITIMATE abuse by professors or actual “injustice” that needs to be fought by “going up the right channels.” Those themes cropped up in this thread when the only topics in the OP are eating in class and tardiness, so I made the natural assumption that LOHD and his bevy are making no distinction between eating in class or showing up late and fundamental rights. His post is my cite.
The immaturity and ignorance I find so maddening is the lack of clarity over what exactly the difference is between an authority figure with simple rules that need to be followed and a “blow-hard asshole.” I am not at all sure that the distinction exists in the minds of many people in this thread.
Perhaps not initially, but now they have you as an object lesson.
Oh, with selfish spoiled brats like these, the line of “blowhard assholes” will grow and grow. Most of their instructors, all of their bosses, the guy at the hardware store…
As one of the OPs pitted here, I feel a small need to defend myself.
In general:
-I am ALWAYS on time, if not five minutes early.
-I never eat in class. Frankly, I consider it rude.
-I almost always do the reading (about four hours per day counting all of my classes) and am always prepared to discuss them. If I don’t do the readings for whatever reason, I at least know enough about the subject to still talk about it.
-I participate, which is more than most people can say.
-When I do miss class, I always apologize. I apologized profusely to the very teacher I was complaining about when I missed class on tuesday because I was so sick I could barely open my eyes. I apologized on the phone, then I apologized some more when I emailed her my homework.
I consider myself a pretty good student and not “entitled” to anything. I’m lucky to have gone to this college for two and a half years, especially now when I have to go to a much cheaper place simply because I have no more money. I am not the type to wander in ten minutes late, then slouch silently in the back eating breakfast because I just rolled out of bed. So Cricetus, shut up about “selfish spoiled brats”.
More specifically, I was not “whining” because my professor is a bitch, I was “whining” because her habits interfere with my studying. Pardon me if I have trouble learning when I have to try to decipher poorly-photocopied but vitally-important readings, then grit my teeth every five minutes in class. And especially, pardon me for daring to complain about it in a neutral environment. I’m sorry you had to read about me and my entitlement, Trunk! From now on, I’ll only bitch to my teacher’s face, okay?
Compared to self-righteous and arrogant crusaders like yourself.
I don’t support the students listed in the OP. In each and every case there is something I PERSONALLY see as lacking justification. I do, however, know that they have every right to complain about it. They spend their time, energy and money into something like school, and they have every right to complain.
It’s like somebody driving down the road and getting a flat, complaining about it, and having somebody tell them, thats life, you have no right to complain, you chose to drive down this road after all. Both are rediculous ideas (the idea you can’t complain).
LHOD is, as far as I can tell, doing the same. There is no site for inference? He doesn’t outright support the students, only uses them as examples.
And your last post is a fallacy as well, a classic slippery slope. Because if a student complains about a hard ass professor, they will soon be complaining about the nice ones right? Yeah… Your LOGIC is infallible, you sir, are a boon to the fight against ignorance. :rolleyes:
I have been a prick in this thread, I admit. I actually have let students enter late and I have let them eat in class. I also listen to their complaints. I’m not a professor, but have tought adjunct at a small college, a job I quit largely because the institutional rules were so stupid and – in my opinion – anti student. However, the thread invited me to vent some frustration at the sense of entitlement some students have, and every exchange seemed to divide us more. Because I can sympathize with instructors who have hardline rules does not mean I think any authority figure is always right, or that students are always wrong. I also think students might have a small grievance but not know it is small. I remember a couple of times in college where I was treated like snot by a professor, and got enraged, and looking back I know I was right, that they were unprofessional, but also that my outrage was way out of proportion to the damage done.
To be fair, it’s more like the guy breaking a minor traffic law and beeping his horn and flicking off the guy who’s obeying the law but in his way.
Yeah you have. You’ve misrepresented my arguments consistently, taken things personally that weren’t about you, and excluded the middle so many times that I’d think you hated Dionne Warwick.
When I talk about fighting for justice, I’m not talking about sticking it to the man. If you’ll note, the method for fighting for justice that I mentioned in this thread was talking to The Man–specifically, going over a professor’s head to her boss with one’s concerns.
Think about that for a minute. If a student goes over a professor’s head saying, “But Dr. Willis won’t let me eat Fritos in class!” do you think the dean is going to march down to Willis’s office and lay a beat-down?
Of course not. I know that. Because that’s not fighting for justice.
If a student goes over a professor’s head and says, “Listen, could you have a talk with Dr. Johnson? He’s grading people down on papers not because they’ve written poor papers, but because in their papers they disagree with his postmodernist philosophy. Let me show you this unambiguous evidence that he’s stifling inquiry in the classroom.” Do you think the dean is going to march down to Johnson’s office and lay a beat-down?
I sure hope so. Because that IS what I’m talking about.
For what it’s worth, you said you were stunned when you realized that I am 30 and have kids and still have such a stunted sense of justice. Let me leave you with some points to think on:
Daniel
I actually have let students enter late and I have let them eat in class. I also listen to their complaints. I’m not a professor, but have tought adjunct at a small college, a job I quit largely because the institutional rules were so stupid and – in my opinion – anti student. However, the thread invited me to vent some frustration at the sense of entitlement some students have, and every exchange seemed to divide us more. Because I can sympathize with instructors who have hardline rules does not mean I think any authority figure is always right, or that students are always wrong. I also think students might have a small grievance but not know it is small. I remember a couple of times in college where I was treated like snot by a professor, and got enraged, and looking back I know I was right, that they were unprofessional, but also that my outrage was way out of proportion to the damage done.
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You’ve probably heard my warnings about letting your irony meter anywhere near the Internet, so I’ll forgive you this one. That was ironic.
Of course I don’t believe those idiotic generalities. They were there to demonstrate how obnoxious it is to be pigeonholed in an insulting fashion for taking a side in an argument.
Yes, they might be true for some people. But I KNOW THEY ARE NOT TRUE FOR EVERYONE. If they were, it wouldn’t have been very effective satire.
Tell you what. If you promise not to let your irony meter near anyone else’s posts, you can let it near mine.
Daniel
When I used the word “retarded,” I used it in its literal meaning – “stunted” – and included that context paranthetically. I didn’t say you were MENTALLY retarded, or a “retard.” Big difference.
Christ, once in class I used the word “retarded” to describe something that wasn’t even human. I can’t remember the context, but it was something like, “Our progress has been retarded by technological problems,” and a girl rose her hand to “correct” me.
Please, please get over yourself! You are not a lone voice for student rights, nor am I some piggish troll stomping on children.
I see–I’m not mentally retarded, I’m cognitively stunted. You need to be writing for our university’s Office of Terminology.
With all due respect, you’re not in a position to tell me to get over myself, or to suggest that I’m excluding any middles.
Daniel
What middle have I excluded?
That would be, “Some student complaints are baseless, and some student complaints are very serious and ought to be addressed by the academic institution which they attend.” You’re argument in this thread has pretty much been, “Students should shut the fuck up, and if you disagree with me, there’s something wrong with your brain.”
No such examples were offered in the thread, but I acknowledge that they exist. Nor did I say students should “shut the fuck up,” just that they were selfish and rude. You can think a person is selfish and rude without thinking they should have their first amendment rights stripped away.
What about kidchameleon and me?