To all the girls: Why don't you like nice guys?

Don’t give me all that bullshit about how you do. Maybe if you are over 28 or so that’s true, but I’ve been around the block long enough to see how all the jerks in the world prosper. I’m a 24 year old male. I’ve had 3 sexual relationships so far, and all have been with women 29+.

Now that I’ve shared my info, I know the usual rebuttal also to my OP, “but nice guys aren’t nice, they are just wimpy and weak.” Well, I will grant you that some are, but excuse me if I toot my own horn for a while,

Here comes the self-aggrandizement, but I am one hell of a dude. I am far from bad-looking, I am confident, witty, and emotionally astute. When I love a girl, I value her happiness over my own. Is romance dead? I don’t shy away from pain if that means helping me or my love, so it’s not like I’m some weak fuddy-duddy or anything. I’m just tired of being passed over for Jonny-come-comecomecome in his motorcycle or w/e.

I have had nice girls like me before for a while, but in the course of courtship they always find some reason not to be with me. I’m not going to list my faults (although I have many), because everyone has flaws. I’m sick and tired of being single because I know myself and I damn well know I’m an awesome piece of meat. I am funny, smart, and I care for my girl more than the world. I try to practice agape towards everyone, and sadly that seems to cost one in life.

If this keeps up, I don’t know if I can keep being nice. I have sexual needs just like anyone. As it stands now, I’m getting a 4-pack and a nose job and fuck anyone who thinks me worse for it. Good looks make people feel unconsciously happier, and if I was bugged to find links I could. I don’t mean for this to be a pit rant but god I am angry so fuck fuck fuck FUCK.

Aw damn, I thought you were dating! I’m sorry, hon. :frowning:

If it helps, I have always thought you were a charming and entertaining fellow, just the sort of guy I’d date if you lived closer in.

I’m 28, though, so I guess that makes me normal? :wink:

Actually, I do have an answer for you, though: good behavior from a bad guy is rare, therefore sought after. It’s like those rats that kill themselves pushing the button over and over again because it used to give food on a random basis. A guy who’s an asshole to everyone but one girl some of the time will be clung to by that girl because his occasional pearls of awesome are so rare but all for her. It makes her feel special.

Ask me how I know this.

I’m 39. It changes later. Trust me.

Some of us are still in high school, emotionally. I realized a while ago that what I was looking for in a relationship at this point is not some kind of warm hearted contentment, but rather some drama and excitement. The “he loves me, he loves me not” thing gets addicting. And it frees me up from feeling like I have too many emotional obligations. I value my freedom and independence, and some guy slobering about how I’m the world to him makes me feel uncomfortably beholden.

Does this make me shallow and likely to get in bad relationships? Yeah, sure. What can be done about it?

Most guys I know who have tried the “be a jerk for a while” thing have found that it works pretty well and they get plenty of action. Could be worth a shot.

It’s not that women like jerks. At least the kind of women that you would want to be with long term don’t like jerks. But I don’t think that most women want someone who values his own happiness too. You say:

Give and take is more fun. Partnerships. Self respect. Women wouldn’t want you to always put their needs first. If you are always “there” for us, it’s too easy.

By showing us that you have your own needs and that you know how to make yourself happy, you are showing us some of your real self confidence. We don’t want a lap dog. (Not that you were or are!)

I’ve always thought you are a neat guy, by the way. Your day will come. The fact that older women like you is a good sign – not a bad one.

Being in your twenties is one of the toughest parts of life. It works out though.

Would this be a bad time to mention I have been sleeping with a woman who has been in 4 fairly well known adult films. :cool:

They do eventually tire of the assholes, unfortunately its often a little later in life.

My trick has always been, find the place where you are the bad boy for me, hang out around a churchy crowd and suddenly I am the “forbidden and dangerous one” even though in the grand scheme of things, I am a fairly nice guy.

Of course I don’t really “know” you at all, but from your posting history you seem like a great guy. So, a question: can you see any pattern in what happened with relationships that ended? Did many of them say you were too clingy, or too remote, or their goals were different from yours, or … ???

No. My first ended because she didn’t want kids. My second ended because we were long-distance. My third ended because I didn’t feel we were right for marriage.

It has no rational connection, but here is a song that I like and am listening to now. It’s in Russian and Japanese:

Because men who call themselves “nice guys” tend to be creepy and entitled in relationships. I haven’t seen enough of your posting history to know if this true of you, but this:

is not only creepy and entitled but not very nice. No one owes you sex, no matter how much you lavish attention on them because you think that’s what you’re supposed to do.

Excellent synopses of the syndrome at Feministe:

And a letter from a “reformed” Nice Guy here.

I don’t understand what the hell you’re talking about. What’s a w/e? What do you mean a 4-pack? What does that mean? You’re really getting a nose job? Are you serious? I’ve never even heard of a guy getting a nose job. Is your nose so big that it gets in the way of your cock or something?

I used to have these same complaints about girls “only liking assholes” and “why don’t they like a nice guy like meeeeeee?!” Then a few years later, like, when I was 20, I turned into one of those assholes that girls always like. It’s not something I tried to do, it just happened. It’s in my genes. But looking back on it now, I have the benefit of being able to offer some perspective. It’s not that girls don’t like you because you’re a nice guy. It’s that they don’t like you because you think that girls don’t like you because you’re a nice guy. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. What you are doing is putting yourself inside a psychological box, and you need to get out of that box and do it now.

Don’t “put the pussy on a pedestal.” I hate to quote a stupid line from a comedy like that, but there’s some truth to it. Don’t be TOO nice to women. You don’t need to actively be an asshole, but if you start playing it cool and slightly “aloof” with women instead of eagerly listening to everything they say and being a perfect gentleman all the time, they’ll want to be “that girl” who was able to make you “nice,” and so they’ll actually try. Make them want you. The male version of “playing hard to get,” I guess?

There are no hard and fast rules for this big game of dating and fucking, so it’s not like the above advice is guaranteed to help you, but hey, if one thing isn’t working, try something else.

This is so hilarious it makes me cry, I’ve said the same thing over and over. NGFL (nice guys finish last)

I’ve got plenty of girls who are friends, but no one’s ever been interested in me. I care about all of them (and fell for two) but it’s not returned.

They know I’ll always be around, and care for them (and I DO, even after I’m told “no thanks”)…

So why should they return it.

I’m not a very outgoing person, very private, and the complete lack of confidence isn’t helping.

Don’t drink or smoke. But then I don’t go to church, so that makes another hurdle, because then the churchgoers (the good girls I’m interested in) aren’t interested in me.

25 and ABSOLUTELY single for about 25 years now…


Two posts in one day. This place is becoming a bad habit!

Eh, I realize I’m over your age limit… heck, I was over your age limit by the time I lost my virginity… but I have no interest in someone who wants me, breathes me, tries to inhale me. “I couldn’t live without you” is emotional blackmail. I watched my mother twist herself into pretzels in order to please my father; I watched her… demean him doing that. There were things she avoided doing in case it might offend him (the issue had never come up), but which I think would not have offended him. IMO, she kind of made him a worst insult by not talking about it with him than she would have by doing whatever.

I don’t want someone who makes a bridge of his body so I can cross over a puddle on the floor, or even someone who drops his cloak in it (it gets the cloak drenched and doesn’t keep either of us dry), just someone who takes advantage of his long legs to get over the puddle first and then gives me his hand so I can maybe jump a bit faster than on my own.

Wow. That is actually a great analogy.

Argent Towers, one of my college classmates got a nose job as a graduation gift. And it so happened that when he walked into the cafeteria after grabbing his diploma from the office, I was there with several other girls from the class. And we all went, a la Greek chorus: “OHMYGOD! Jordi! Your nose! What happened?”
“Uhh… nose job.”
:eek: “You did it voluntarily? Your poor nose!”
He’d been blaming his Roman profile for his lack of luck with us girls. I told him: “remember after the 3rd year dinner, we’d been talking all night and then disappeared and came back and asked me out…?” (reeking of JB)
“Yeah and you said no.”
“Remember my exact words?”
“Uh… no”
“It was, ‘ask me again when you’re sober.’ I’ve never had a problem with your nose, but I’m not interested in dating Johnny (Walker) and Jim (Beam) along with Jordi. I liked your nose!”
There were nods of assent all around the group…

He 'fessed up about the ladle.

(Sorry Auto, couldn’t resist!)

Girls generally like a guy with a big nose. As long as the rest of him is relatively good looking. A big nose, plus a fat body and beady eyes and a weak chin, isn’t an asset, but just a big nose alone, I’ve never heard any woman complain about. (Guys with big noses tend to have big dicks, anyway.)

It’s easy enough to say “looks don’t matter, it’s the confidence that matters,” and there’s a lot of truth to it. But if looking better *gives YOU

  • more confidence, then looks do matter, in a roundabout way. If you’re hung up on your looks, you’ll never get anywhere.

A 4-pack as in abdominal muscles. You’ve never heard of a guy getting cosmetic surgery? Well, I dont have any friends like that but it does exist.

You have a point, but I think that’s hardly the whole perspective. I’ve gone out to bars plenty and thought the whole time that I’m the bee’s knees and come home empty. Then again, going by what I know of your posting history, you’re a regular Romeo so who am I to disagree?

You are right. I should be that way. Sometimes I try to be that way, but fuck me with a ladle, sometimes I get tired of playing games and I like to be romantic and open with my feelings. I’m so sad with this world that I can’t do that until after I’ve fucked the girl’s brains out.

Your metaphor is beautiful. I mean that with no sarcasm. I see nothing wrong with being that guy or girl. Sadly, most girls my age want a guy who will watch them get wet in the puddle and then laugh while they fuck in the back alley.

I’m not really a regular Romeo at the moment (more like a repressed Romeo) - I’ve got a girlfriend of 3 years, but I still flirt at every opportunity I get. Practice, you know? And it’s a way of maintaining a monogamous relationship while still having fun. You don’t need to actually cheat, but you can still flirt. (And hey - if her and I break up, I want my skills to still be sharp!) I kid somewhat because after a point, it sort of becomes second nature.

I’m lucky in that I’ve got a big-time player for a dad, so I “learned the ropes” as I grew up in a way that few guys get the chance to do. The guy has a mistress in every city he travels to, even a few in Europe, and he’s got the charming, slightly arrogant act down to a fine art. (At 51, he lives a life that most guys only dream about, in terms of his “social” life.) The funny thing is, he has hardly any male friends, and he spends most of his spare time alone, playing the piano.

It doesn’t seem like you actually like women very much.