Put 'er there Echidna… ohhh…ahhhh… that’s it… keep squeezing, keep your sensuous fingers in that tight little grip…ummm…don’t let up yet…oh…oh… Glad … to…meet…youuuu!!!
Oh… wow. You give good shake lassie.
Echidna I don’t think anyone has ever picked a more appropriate user name. :rolleyes:
Are you sure you’re not putting us on?
[QUOTE=cerberus]
…Victorian-cum-Angry-Feminist stance on handshakes as fasco-paternal-phallo-oppressive invasions;
…
[/QUOTE]
I think I’ve rented that one before.
When I read her quote of a “porn-obsessed society,” I thought our dear chela had come back to visit the pit. Perhaps we could be lucky and find that they are sisters? :eek: 
Although I’ll agree that the rant was overpowered by the odd hand shaking thing (I, as a female, HATE when other women give me some half-assed, pansy hand shake. No, bitch: give me a real goddamn hand shake and do the same to the men. It’s little, but how the hell else are you going to expect to be treated like an equal if you don’t partake in equalizing behavior? Bah!), I can see why she might have come across as a raving bitch about the touching thing.
Perhaps I can relate, which is why I see where the OP is coming from. It’s hard enough being a young woman in any position of authority (big or small), but stuff adds up, simmers, and explodes. Some dude leering at your rack and pawing at you here and there may or may not be a big deal (groping is in the eye-- er, boob of the gropee), but when it happens over and over it can certainly lead you to feel like you’re in a hopeless situation.
Just an example of a day that I had a month or so back: in the morning at work, I answer the phone and someone asks to speak to my boss (who happens to be my dad). I explain he’s out, but I ask if I can help. “No, sweetie. I want to speak to the tax MAN.” (Obviously, we do taxes. . . otherwise that would just be odd in a million different ways). I politely offer to help again, but was rebuffed in a smiliar manner. No biggie, I take down the number.
I stop at a fast food place for lunch. I pull up to the window to hand my cash, burger-boy sticks his greasy little paw in mine, massages my hand, and says, “Are you sure a pretty little girl like yourself can handle all that. . .muscle 
behind that car, baby?” I glare and reply, “I think I can handle it. Thanks.”
I get back to work and some telemarketer calls, claiming that whatever they have to say cannot be said to anyone but the MAN in charge (her emphasis. For the record, my dad has a name that could be male or female, but even then- she didn’t know his name). I explain that he isn’t in, but I may be able to help. “No miss, I need to speak to the president. Isn’t HE in?” I nicely explain that I can help. Again (but slower this time): “No. . . I need to speak to the MAN in charge.” I get angry and explain that I am both the Vice President and the Co-owner, if I can’t help her, no one can. She the proceeds to tell me all about their awesome water filtration system. :rolleyes:
And to top off my day, my favorite client came in: the creepy guy that did some work at our office (while we were expanding) and, thinking I didn’t speak Spanish, talked to his buddies about how great my ass and tits are and just what he’d like to do to them. . . in graphic detail. I, in no uncertain terms, told him that I knew what he was saying and exactly what I would do if he ever tried to touch me- yet, he still calls me sweetie and baby when he comes into the office. I have asked him to stop several times since it makes me uncomfortable, he doesn’t stop. Now I just refuse to deal with him.
That was one day. One. By the end of that day, I was stressed and likely would have written a rant by the OP. I genuinely felt. . . marginalized ain’t the right word, but it’s 1 AM. There are moments when I wonder if I will actually be able to overcome the “pretty young girl” stereotype. And now you’re thinking, “Whoa, what a bitch. She thinks it’s because she’s pretty.” Let me explain: throughout highschool, I was the captain of the debate team. I was the only top 10 female debater in the area. I would get ballots back from judges (oddly, usually female) the said things like: “Well, she won on value and criteria, but it just isn’t appropriate for a lady to be so argumentative.” And under the advice section for me it would say something like: “A pretty, young girl like yourself should take up a more suitable activity.”
No joke. If this happened once, I could blow it off. Two, three, four, or even five times. But I can tell you that this happened 6 times during my senior year alone. The coaches didn’t understand it and even gave special instructions to judges about how they needed to be fair to the females. Yet, no dice. And I regularly have people tell me, “Why would a pretty girl like yourself want to study something boring like political science and history? Don’t you want to be a teacher? You should switch to Liberal Arts.” I’ve had the parents of friends say this, professors, family friends, and even random stranges who ask me what I’m studying.
It’s enough to drive ya crazy. Crazy enough to write a way too long post, ranting, at 1 in the morning.
[QUOTE=Cluricaun]
I don’t know if it qualifies as a phobia on the OP’s part, but it’s certainly poor manners for a man to extend his hand to a woman for a handshake. A gentleman knows that it’s a woman’s prerogative to initiate any physical contact, and that if a handshake is to be part of an exchange that the woman will offer hers first.
Any guy that acts offended by this is a crude boor.
[/QUOTE]
Really? Thanks for telling me… I’m used to “whomever starts introductions, puts his hand forward”.
Dad also taught me to open doors for people and that whomever carries the heaviest load goes in first and says “thank you”. Several separate people called him “one of the last true knights” when they came to offer condolences at his funeral.
files it under ‘things that them anglos do different’
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima]
I get back to work and some telemarketer calls, claiming that whatever they have to say cannot be said to anyone but the MAN in charge (her emphasis. For the record, my dad has a name that could be male or female, but even then- she didn’t know his name). I explain that he isn’t in, but I may be able to help. “No miss, I need to speak to the president. Isn’t HE in?” I nicely explain that I can help. Again (but slower this time): “No. . . I need to speak to the MAN in charge.” I get angry and explain that I am both the Vice President and the Co-owner, if I can’t help her, no one can. She the proceeds to tell me all about their awesome water filtration system. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
A few years ago, I got to work and people started congratulating me. When I asked “what’s the deal, I’m not getting married and haven’t won the lottery” they realized I hadn’t heard yet about my boss’s sideways promotion. Since I had been doing 80% of his management duties, people figured I was a shoo-in unless for some strange reason I didn’t want the job.
Turns out I did. But I had to go do the psycho tests and stuff. The agency involved had been told to treat “internal CVs exactly the same as external ones”. Pity the person giving those instructions didn’t realize that she was talking with an agency that’s the only one in 4 provinces to have all-male personnel.
So, later they call to give the factory manager the Three Holy Names. Mine isn’t among them. The manager says “but, but why isn’t Nava one of them? She’s got the skills, she’s got the experience, she fits well in our culture” (I really think they should have told the agency to leave me aside and return my results and the Three Holy Names). The guy on the phone stammered out something unclear about my leadership skills, then goes on to sing the praises of the Triad.
When the factory manager came to tell me, and being in quite a state, the following slipped out: “what really makes me wonder is why did he keep asking me to put him through to el señor director (the male-word-manager)…”
Why, dear: you’re female 
The idea of a married woman with two kids being in charge of a chemical factory full of guys is just beyond some people’s brainsize.
[QUOTE=Case Sensitive]
But does she have a nice rack?
[/QUOTE]
Points to Corrado and Case! Well done!
[QUOTE=DianaG]
FWIW, I hate that handshake. I have no doubt that you’re well intentioned, but I find it condescending.
[/quote]
The scales have fallen from my eyes, and I have seen the error of my ways. From now on, I’m a whole new Daithi – no more sissy handshakes for the ladies, no sirree! I’m gonna look 'em in the eye, and give it to 'em nice and firm!
Handshake, I mean. 
[QUOTE=Daithi Lacha]
The scales have fallen from my eyes, and I have seen the error of my ways. From now on, I’m a whole new Daithi – no more sissy handshakes for the ladies, no sirree! I’m gonna look 'em in the eye, and give it to 'em nice and firm!
Handshake, I mean.
[/QUOTE]
Good for you, Daithi Lacha. A good handshake will get you halfway to earning my respect. If you slip me a $20 in the process, you’ll have purchased the rest. 
For those who are wondering, the reason some men and women give women weak handshakes of the fingers is that women are sometimes known to wear rings with big stones on them, and you may cause them undue pain by giving them a firm handshake.
You may not have known the reason why you were taught to give women those sorts of handshakes, but now you do.
Nevertheless, it is not incorrect to give a woman a firm handshake. Based on the opinions expressed in this thread, I’d say it’s the way to go.
I really enjoyed your posts, DiosaBellisima and Nava.
[QUOTE=DianaG]
Good for you, Daithi Lacha. A good handshake will get you halfway to earning my respect. If you slip me a $20 in the process, you’ll have purchased the rest.
[/QUOTE]
Can I get a receipt for that?
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima]
It’s enough to drive ya crazy. Crazy enough to write a way too long post, ranting, at 1 in the morning.
[/QUOTE]
Aww, sweetie, you don’t have to worry your pretty little head about all that! Hey, why don’t you go buy yourself a pretty new dress?
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
No need for a big drama.
[/QUOTE]
Isn’t that what Pitting does? Avoid a big drama by venting it out here?
The OP seems quite reasonable to me, a hetero single guy in my early 50s. It seems reasonable that a young attractive womanregularly dealing with the public would come into, ahem, contact, with creepy guys more often than she cares for, and such creepy guys would push the envelope, some regularly. Is handshaking a social norm? How about if I hold onto your hand a second longer than usual? Or shake your hand once a week, as if we’d never introduced ourselves? Or found some other excuse to initiate brief-to-skin contact? This stuff is creepy if unwelcome and I see it going on every day, with the attractive young woman either being seen an unfriendly creep herself or being used as a high point of that creepy guy’s day.
Of course, this stuff disturbs some young women far more than others. The OP needs to find another line of work, seems to me.
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]
…How about if I hold onto your hand a second longer than usual? Or shake your hand once a week, as if we’d never introduced ourselves? Or found some other excuse to initiate brief-to-skin contact?..
[/QUOTE]
(emphasis added)
Your point’s well taken. Still, I’d file the first two under normal variations in personality and advise tolerance. Touching your briefs, on the other hand, is definitely a deal-breaker, I should think.
[QUOTE=bluethree]
For those who are wondering, the reason some men and women give women weak handshakes of the fingers is that women are sometimes known to wear rings with big stones on them, and you may cause them undue pain by giving them a firm handshake.
You may not have known the reason why you were taught to give women those sorts of handshakes, but now you do.
Nevertheless, it is not incorrect to give a woman a firm handshake. Based on the opinions expressed in this thread, I’d say it’s the way to go.
I really enjoyed your posts, DiosaBellisima and Nava.
[/QUOTE]
Okay…I can go along with this, but there’s a huge difference between giving a firm, whole-hand shake and crushing the metacarpals. I agree with the previous poster who suggested that you “squeeze in kind”. Most women aren’t going to deliver a crusher. Just let me know that you’re actually grasping my hand.
And watch the rings.
How dare someone with ONLY a high school education make more money than you after working for a company years before you came on to the scene.
What a bitch.
[looks around]…
I don’t think she’s coming back.
I think your post has some good and some bad points.
[QUOTE=echidna]
First, a general rant.
When you are speaking to me **as a peer, **gents, here’s a tip: Do *not *stick out your hand to me, or I will refuse to shake it. Oh, that’s socially unacceptable? My bad; guess we’ll both be embarrassed. I will not shake strange men’s hands simply for the sake of propriety. Since our social status is equal and you are not my boss, my thesis supervisor, or the Pope, I decide when you will touch me.I]
[/quote]
As others have said, this is an acceptable social convention. Handshaking is not inappropriate touching.
[QUOTE=echidna]
To my boss. Hey, when I write you a heart-wrenching long email about a personal problem I am experiencing with our contract cleaning company, it means I have a valid complaint and want to be involved in the solution. It does not mean I only wanted to vent, or that I’m amusing myself with contrived diddles while the company wastes money on people with no work ethic. But don’t worry, I’ve learned my lesson. I will never again presume to be involved in the solution of a problem created by the Corporate Ruling Class. Thank you for teaching me my place. Thank you for totally ignoring my concerns. I will now shut up and resume being the obedient mediocre corporate slave that you want me to be.
[/quote]
I’m sorry if you have a personal problem at work. However you need to express yourself carefully to your boss. They want a statement of the facts, as concisely as possible.
As for you giving up after failing once - this is not condusive to success.
[QUOTE=echidna]
Hullo there, Friendly Slow Guy. How may I help YOU today? Check this out: When I am helping you with your headphones and video, that does NOT give you license to paw me with your hands. If my skin is so silky smooth that you must touch it, then offer me a modeling job. Do not put your hands on me without my permission. I am not some exotic pet that exists for your amusement or viewing pleasure, regardless of what this sick porn-obsessed culture has taught you. I am a person working for very little pay to get through school and better myself, and I have better things to do than deal with your pansy-ass clumsy clown antics.
Yo Electrician Guy, what’s doin’? I know you’re a friendly old grandfather who’s an usher in your church, and everyone likes you. But guess what?* I don’t like you. *I don’t want to hug you, I don’t want your compliments, I don’t want your eyes on me, I’m sick of your endless excuses to touch me, and I don’t want you slapping me on the back like I’m one of the guys. One of the reasons I dress like a boarding school matron and give up all my rights to be a sexy feminine woman is so that I don’t have to deal with unwanted male attention. So leave me the fuck alone, you snivel-snorting pignut, and quit asking me questions about my personal life, because it’s none of your jiggety-shit business. If you want to touch a pretty young girl, go find a girlfriend. Oh, you’re not that kind of man? I beg to differ. Draw! I will end you.
[/quote]
Yes, you have the right not to be inappropriately touched. Stay calm and tell them not to do it. Mention it calmly to your boss.
[QUOTE=echidna]
Hey, cow-porker from hell. I think it’s great that you make more money than I do even though you only have a HS diploma. But fair’s fair, since you’ve been here longer, right? Let me be clear: the next time you dump your responsibilities on my already bursting-at-the-seams-with-shit-to-do desk and condescendingly say “This will give you something to do,” you will receive a bitch-slapping unlike anything in all your high heaven-splitting dreams or holy sulfur-drenched nightmares. The affair will end with your defeat and humiliation and my ultimate triumph as Mistress of Combat. Make no mistake: I will take you down with my bare hands in front of the whole library, to the amazed wonderment of the crowd that will gather to cheer me on.
[/quote]
After you’ve been at work for a while, what you do (and how you do it) matters more than your qualifications.
I don’t know how the remark was delivered, so can’t say how annoyed you should be. But it doesn’t justify physical violence.
[QUOTE=echidna]
To the man I am dating: Hey shit-for-brains, visit a crime scene and GET A CLUE. When I tell you about the aforementioned violations of my Modesty—and let us not forget the pathetic assgoblin who exposed his microscopic Member to me on the street 3 weeks ago—it means I am looking for empathy and support. It does NOT mean that you should take the *guys’ *side, you quivering pickle-dick. I have a good mind to give you a thrashing that will blow you into outer space and land you on a faraway butt-shaped asteroid with no televised football, *Penthouse, *or toilets. Oh, one more thing: I know you like rap music, but talking like you suddenly popped out of the ass of some Manichean inner-city ghetto doesn’t become someone whose parents make almost 100K per year. You’re not fooling anyone. I’m warning you: Shape up or I’ll be fixin to move on.
[/quote]
Why not tell him how you feel, rather than fantasising about violence and worrying about how much his parents earn?
[QUOTE=echidna]
To the cow-porker who left me to deal with an angry customer *when it’s not even my job *and who listened from the back room with other cow-porkers while this customer embarrassed me in front of the whole library: You and everyone else in your clique-y department are a steaming pile of manure-filled pussballs. Why the fuck do you think I am working in your department, ass-bubble? Because I like you? Wrong answer, it’s because I want to earn extra money. I’ll be damned if I do your job at one-third of your pay while you jack off in the back room, you slobbering blibbernit. It is a good thing for you that I am the Mistress of Combat; I have Skills and I learn fast, and wthin months I will probably be better than you. Goodbye! You are so woefully ignorant that you are not even worth a beating.
[/quote]
It is very irritating to deal with rude customers. Your colleagues and your boss should have helped.
However it is a skill dealing with such people. Can’t you learn it?
[QUOTE=echidna]
To the cow-porker who hired me into his department at the shittiest pay I have ever worked for, and who is now copping an attitude because I do not want to attend a far-away conference at his whim: Hey loser, pull up your big boy pants and* Get Over It.* It’s not my fault that you accepted my offer to go for the whole three days but then gave the assignment to someone else who could go for only two days. What the fuck? Does this make sense to any person of normal intelligence who resides in the world of Facts and Reason? And don’t act pissy around me because I rightfully refused to attend only the third day, you beastly blulbering cow-nerd. Where the hell do you get off asking me to disrupt my schedule to attend one day of a conference?
[/quote]
What ‘right’ do you have not to attend? How could ‘your schedule be disrupted’ if you were prepared to attend all 3 days?
[QUOTE=echidna]
To the dodo man I like and who I think likes me but has not made a move: Stop staring at your shoes and get your head out of the clouds, falafel-farter. What do you want to do? If you want me, talk to me. If you don’t want me, quit leaving messages on my phone, flirting with me, and asking your friends about me. Haven’t you heard? Women like a man of action. You’re falling fast from the exalted place you occupy in my heart and mind. I’ll save you the suspense: I am not going to call you, because I know that if you want me bad enough you will call me. I am also not going to pursue you; I am worth more than that and have never needed to, nor do I plan to, stoop to that level. Finally, unlike some of the girls you may know I am not going to beg and I will not humiliate myself for your sake, even though I am positively mad for you. If you’re “just not that into me” (which is what it looks like), I’m moving on. Men in my life are like buses, honey—one leaves and another pulls up. If you’re waiting for me to make the first move, you’ll be waiting until the Judgment Day *and beyond. *Figure it out before I move East in five months, or we shall both be the sorrier. I will not come around this way again.
[/QUOTE]
Um, perhaps he’s not approaching you because you already have a boyfriend. Some people think that’s honourable.
Anyway why should he approach you- he’s worth more than that and doesn’t need to stoop to that level.
Or perhaps he thinks you hate people who come on to you…
Cut echidna some slack. After dealing with my first wife’s craziness when she was on the rag, I recognize a PMS-fired rage when I see one.