To file, or not to file.... (criminal charges)

In My Humble Opinion
21

I know that pressing charges seems like a “nuclear” option to a lot of people out there. Most folks look on situations like this and wonder why the one set of parents doesn’t say something to the other, and the other set of parents smacks the kids so he know whats wrong. Who knows, this might even happen.

But, as I’m finding out, the kind of kids we might just call jerks and want to smack are more often given diagnoses of things like Oppositional Deviant Disorder - which basically means that we really want to give them a smack (and they can really be schmucks), but negative reinforcement been proven to do very little to change their behaviors. O.D.D. kids can be the worst to deal with. It’s possible that the antagonist in the OP has something along these lines.

Anyone with ODD can be too much even for many trained, well-meaning Sp Ed teachers. (I should point out from the get-go, I’m not a SpEd teacher, but I am good friends with one of the teachers we have, and he’s told me enough stories to know I’d never last a day, on account of someone not being able to breathe at the end of the day.) Even trained SpEd teachers and admins can quickly reach their wits end and not know any way to deal with ODD kids, so the concept of getting them transfered into a school for kids with proven behavioral issues starts to sound more and more attractive. They may not be able to force the issue without charges being pressed. (IOW, the parents of the antagonist may not want the kid moved, but charges being filed might allow the admins to do so without parental consent.)

I don’t know enough from this thread to know which way I’d lean. I think I’d be stuck with the op trying to figure out a little more. It sounds like something like what I’ve described may be going on, but I can 't tell for sure.

Good luck,
-Geek

22

Probably the most telling information the OP could have would be the attitude of the aggressor’s parents. Assuming it came to my attention that my kid had done this more than once? I’d be sick about my kid pushing someone else’s around. We would have a “come to Jesus” talk. My (imaginary) kid would be losing privileges. No video games, no talking on the phone, no allowance, right on down the line to confining him to the house, then his room, etc. If I could, I would probably be proactive in contacting the parents of the kid who was abused, have my kid apologize to his victim, etc.

OTOH the OP may find out that the aggressor’s parents are total enablers. Parents are supposed to teach kids before they come to school that hitting is not acceptable behavior but maybe these parents have just let the kid do whatever he wants, from the gitgo.

Re: ODD…like so many things in psychology, it’s hard to say what’s valid and what isn’t. But supposing the offender has some disorder along these lines…

  1. Some would say it “excuses” the behavior…he just can’t help it. Yeah, tell that to the kid with the bumps and bruises.
  2. Some kids so diagnosed will take that as a license to continue the behavior.
  3. In fact, we reward people for behaving in that way, for living up to the label.

Thomas Szasz said mental illness is a myth. An interesting read:

Conclusion: It’s the parent’s job to protect his own kid first and foremost. Kids do have to learn to get along with others, appreciate diversity, and all that. But IMO that doesn’t extend to making your kid the punching bag for a bully.

I wonder what a little sabre-rattling might do for the OP. Sometimes the mere threat of legal action encourages people to rethink their position.

One alternative to legal: media. Remember Jolita Berry, the Baltimore teacher who was attacked by a student and the video was captured on a cell phone? It’s probably true that if that hadn’t hit the media, the principal et al would have done little about it.

23

He’s mistaken, then (whoever he is).

You can argue all you’d like about the ‘illness du jour’ and whether or not children are diagnosed for the convenience of their parents. But please don’t be fooled into thinking there’s ‘no such thing’ as mental illness.

24

Media strikes me as a worse solution than criminal charges does. I would not fight a battle in public for my child’s schooling if I could help it. And it strikes me as a particularly bad solution to this particular problem, which I read as Autisitic boy is hit and teased by other student. Principal suggests filing criminal charges (which may be an over-reaction to this incident, but if it would lead in practice to protecting my hypothetical child, might be worth it). I don’t think that this case is dramatic enough to catch the public interest. Maybe I’m wrong.

25

Do you trust the principal? Do you trust Dweezil’s teachers? Talk it over with them - they seem to know something you don’t, and its possible that they can’t disclose it. That something may be that they see this kid as a real danger to the other students and until parents start filing charges, they can’t do much. Or that something may be that they just don’t like the kid or his parents and want to stir up trouble and use you to do it. If you trust them, and its the first, I wouldn’t want to regret later that I didn’t press charges - if this kid goes out of control someone could be seriously injured or even killed (a chair to the back of the head!) And frankly, that’s independant of how the kid’s parents respond - even if the kid’s parents are responding appropriately, if the kid is still out of control and a danger to others something needs to be done.

26

I agree with much of the above: don’t do anything yet, but meet with the principal and the other parents before you decide. You just don’t have anything like a whole picture yet.

When you have gathered more data, my last bit of advice is the same question I ask kids when they get to the tattling age: “Are you telling me this to help or to hurt?” If you file charges on the kid because his parents are clueless and the principal is hamstrung and you think filing charges will get the kid the therapy/case worker/special ed he needs, then you’re doing it to help, and that’s a good thing. If you file charges to punish the little bastard who hurt your precious snookums, then you’re doing it to hurt, and that’s not a good thing. Two wrongs, and all that.

I know you know that. But I find that little question a really helpful aphorism: “Am I doing this to help or to hurt?” It’s stopped me from adding to the ick of the world on a number of occasions, and given me the intestinal fortitude to firmly deal with some ugly situations on others.

27

Szasz was mentioned prominently in some psych textbooks I had.

From the article cited:

*Criticizing scientism, he targets in particular psychiatry, underscoring its campaigns against masturbation at the end of the 19th century or the use of lobotomy to treat schizophrenia. *

He isn’t a total crackpot. He just carries the argument to the nth degree. It’s interesting reading and although you won’t agree with everything he says, there’s some truth to a lot of it.

Obviously most if not all of us have known of people who, as you put it, are diagnosed for the convenience of their parents or to try to get away with a crime etc. That was my point.

@Eureka, re: media: it’s an option, a card that could be played or bluffed or not played at all. Schools avoid publicity as much as they can and if no action is forthcoming, it’s a possibility.

I’m in agreement with those who are saying to talk to the principal etc. From the OP however it doesn’t sound as though the other parents are reasonable people. If they were, the principal wouldn’t suggest legal action…he’d be smoothing it over with all concerned parties.

28

I gathered that. :slight_smile: I also realize that mental illness is still poorly understood, especially with respect to which medications are effective, and why.

29

There are “camps,” right?

Freudians say that there are these conflicts with the parents, that a lot of behavior is based on sex, yadda. For some people, and/or for some situations, they’re right. A friend of mine used to work out with boxing stuff in his basement: he punched bags that he treated as effigies of his mom and would tell you that.

Behaviorists think it’s about responses to rewards, operant conditioning. My nephew is just like that. Tell him you need to sell 100 magazine subscriptions to earn the bicycle and he goes and does it.

And of course the list goes on. E.g. Frankl, an Auschwitz survivor, believed that people strive for meaning in life.

Szasz was trained as a psychiatrist so it isn’t like he never believed in mental illness. But he’s probably a good example of a highly-qualified person who considered many theories and concluded, “…and some people are just jerks.”

30

Did Dweezil hit him back?

31

No - definitely not the first time, and we haven’t been told by anyone that he did so the second time. The first time, the hitter ran off before Dweezil could react; the second time he might have had a chance but I imagine he was too stunned to do so.

Excellent advice!

In this situation, there’s a third option beyond “help or hurt”, as in “help the other kid”, “hurt the other kid”, or “who cares about him, I gotta protect my kid”. I think we are truly not going for the “punish the bastard who hurt snookums”, though (as any parent), naturally our first impulse was “rip face off”. That mama bear instinct. Fortunately I immediately checked my screen name and saw it said “Zappa” not “Bear” ;-). But the impulse is natural, and suppressing it is (I hope!) what separates us from the animals. Anyway, if we can combine “help the other kid” with “protect Snookums”, obviously that would be ideal.

We’re going to meet with the principal next week. He had said in email Thursday “yes, just name date and time”. Well, Typo Knig suggested either Friday (yesterday) at 9:30 or Monday at 9:30… and we haven’t heard back, which is annoying. All who say we don’t have enough facts yet - oh, absolutely.

We may even try to meet with the parents, once we have more info from the principal. With confidentiality issues, the principal may not be able to identify them to us; all we know about the boy, for example, is his first name.

I remember my first thought when I heard of the first incident was that it was some sort of “initiation” thing - a group of kids set up someone to “hit the weirdo” as part of a way of getting into their “club” (or gang even, there’s a very low level of gang activity at the school; not pervasive but not completely absent). That would actually be a much easier decision.

Again - many, many thanks for all who are weighing in here. You’ve all given us a lot to think about over the weekend.

32

Did I mention incompetent asswipes with excuses?

33

Here’s my two cents for what it is worth:

  1. I would have a meeting with the principal and the other parents. I would stress that my kid has a right to be at this school and be free from getting hit or taunted. I would ask everyone in the room “What can we all do to make sure this doesn’t happen anymore?”

  2. If I read the OP correctly, the principal didn’t advocate pressing charges, but simply mentioned that they could be filed. He sounds like a whiny little fucker who can’t control his school. If I was the superintendent, I would fire him for suggesting it. It is his job to make sure his school is a safe environment; not the police.

  3. As a parent, I would tell Dweezil to pop the little bastard when he gets a chance. If the other kid is bigger, twisting his ear is excellent. Tell him not to let go; keep twisting and pulling that ear until the kid starts crying like a little girl.

34

While I agree and think that Dweezil should be able to hit back, he’d likely get suspended/tossed out of school just as well even though he was only defending himself and the other kid hit first.

35

Do remember, Mama, that this is the graduation time of year. The principal may be legitimately busier than a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest.

jt & Rasa, the thing about hitting back is that Dweezil will be punished. A principal told me once that these things can start as trash talk in the morning, glares across the room during first period, etc. By the time the first punch falls, nobody can really say who “started” it in the first place. I know—talking trash and punching aren’t the same thing—but that’s why schools approach it that way.

36

Dweezil is mildly autistic, so this can be a very different problem than with a “normal” child.

37

An update, of sorts:

We met with the principal (and the school security officer, who is a county policeman) the other day.

We know a little more about the boy in question:

  • Just moved to our school’s service area in January
  • Hasn’t been in any other particular trouble
  • Is twice Dweezil’s size (Dweezil is about 5’1" and slender)
  • Probably wants to be seen as “tough”.

I asked if there were provoking circumstances on Dweezil’s end (as noted in the OP, my kid can be unintentionally rude). The only thing Mr. M. knew of was once at lunch - I gather they’ve got semi-official assigned tables (at least, Dweezil and his buddy always sit at the same table), and the boy in question was sitting there one day. Which of course set off Dweezil’s “Thou Shalt Obey The Rules” radar and he was trying to order the boy away. Nothing that makes hitting a reasonable response, obviously, but shows an example of why there might be tension between the two.

Sigh. Dweezil’s a bit too into seeing that everyone follows rules, whether they’re official or just ones that he thinks are official, and this business of enforcing them himself is a bit of a long-standing problem.

The boy in question has spoken with the security officer, and his mother is apparently very supportive of his being suspended.

The process, if we were to file charges, would be handled through the security officer. If it were the boy’s first offence (the officer does not have access to that info, as he’s a juvenile), apparently it would be just some sort of administrative thing and likely no court appearance. If it was not his first offense, then probably a court appearance, testifying etc. would be involved.

We went in with the attitude that we did not see any way in which filing charges would help anyone, and nothing we heard there convinced us otherwise. From the earlier email from the principal, we thought he’d be trying harder to convince us but that was not the case. But especially since (as we suspected), Dweezil’s verbal cues helped set up the hostile situation, it doesn’t seen the right way to proceed.

We did find out the name of the special-ed coordinator for the high school, and the principal suggested we contact her sooner rather than later to make sure that Dweezil and the other boy aren’t scheduled for classes together. Since the other boy also has team-taught (combined special ed and general ed) and self-contained classes, this would be a problem if not specifically addressed. We’ll definitely contact her promptly.

We did say that, if this happens again with the same boy, we’d file charges - I don’t think anyone had any issue with that. I mean, hit once, get away, hit again, get caught - that I can chalk up to impaired judgement. But hitting again after that would qualify as a vendetta in my book, and would seem to be a sign of a more dangerous problem.

I’m weighing the idea of emailing the principal again, along the lines of “We’re wondering if it might be helpful to get the boys together to talk in a less-stressed setting - say, for ice cream - might you be willing to contact the boy’s parents with our info to see if they might like to do that”. My hope wouldn’t be so much to have them turn out to be Best Friends Forever (though all the kiddy novels would expect this as the outcome), but at least to see if they could talk and maybe come to a truce of sorts. Dweezil can be inflexible and unforgiving though, so I don’t know whether that would go well. Must think about it some more.

38

That’s so . . . anti-climatic.

On the one hand, I’m kind of relieved for your sake that filing charges isn’t going to happen now.

On the other hand, I’m disappointed in the principal–because I had thought he’d have more reason to recommend pressing charges than I’m seeing here.

I can see some real appeal in the getting the kids together for ice cream–chance to pick parents brains about the kid’s behaviour in other ways–although I have a feeling it would be less satisfactory a solution than in various kiddy novels.

Thanks for the update and best wishes for the ongoing situation.

39

A little after the fact, but I agree the principal is probably stuck and has no real recourse unless a parent files charges. Sadly, schools are really limited in what they can do after a certain point unless legal action is taken. My guess is that principal had done everything possible to get rid of that other kid, to no avail - thus he was dumping it on you as a last resort.

However, I would have taken legal action - against the school board! They need to set some strict policies that would have given the principal the right to yank that kid out of school for good.

Scaring the school board into taking action would have ensured that this wouldn’t happen again to some other kid, and would at least set a precedent for future situations like this.

Granted, this wouldn’t have made you popular with the school board, but I bet that principal would have been forever grateful and your son would have been treated like the Golden Child for the rest of the time he went to that school.