To the 9/11 Conspiracy Fucktards re Passports

[jjimm]

@smiling bandit

As far as Atta’s passport goes: pretty much nothing of the event is important, except the likelihood that the crushed plane (having been shattered and everyone inside presumably dead) releasing small items, like a passport, black box, briefcase, etc. It doesn’t seem that unlikely to me. Once the plane disintegrates, there’s nothing holding stuff in. Bits go everywhere. And the impact will allow things to fly out - the air itself will be blowing around, sucking things with it. Passports are heavy enough to have some momenum, and are light enough and have a good shape to catch the wind and fly around.

Except the planes didn’t just disintegrate, they blew up in several-hundred-degree jet-fuel explosions. Presumably, though, Atta was in the front of the plane (passport in pocket?), and was thus smashed up and propelled forward, avoiding the absolutely vast conflagration coming from the wings and behind.

[El_Cid_Viscoso]

@Boyo Jim

This is the first shot of a gang war. The Mets mean to take over the town. They’re getting some heavy hitters from the Red Sox to help.

Awesome. Damon: Double-Agent.

[El_Cid_Viscoso]

@jjimm

Except the planes didn’t just disintegrate, they blew up in several-hundred-degree jet-fuel explosions. Presumably, though, Atta was in the front of the plane (passport in pocket?), and was thus smashed up and propelled forward, avoiding the absolutely vast conflagration coming from the wings and behind.

I believe “Atta” is depicted as having a carry-on as he moves through security.

My leather carry-on is as tough as a football; that’s where I keep my passport (and copy of my wills) when I’m flying.

[Skywatcher]

@choie

(Seriously, why was he carrying his passport with him? Was he travelling abroad recently or planning on it, anyone know?)

Canada does still have a baseball team.

[Mince]

@Alessan

What I want to know is why they don’t make the entire plane out of the same indestructable material they use for passports.

Indestructable material? Well, then, certainly there was more than one passport found on 9/11/01, seeing as how they are so indestructable.

[choie]

Good point about Lidle carrying his passport around with him for ID purposes. My sister does that, as a matter of fact – but she doesn’t have a driver’s license, so it’s a matter of necessity for her. I’d be worried about losing a passport, which seems more difficult to replace than a license, no?

(Psst to Lute Skywatcher – I do know Canada has a baseball team, smartypants! More than one, in fact. But surely one doesn’t need a passport going to Canada, does one? I know I didn’t when I went there a few years back. My photo driver’s license was good enough.)

@ambushed

Dammit, choie, how are we supposed to make fun of you when you come across so reasonable-like and make what seems to me to be a valid point?

The only response I can think of is what Annie-Xmas said.

Aw thanks, ambushed. I like to think I’m one of them rational conspiracy theorists. Truthfully, the perjorative label “conspiracy theorist” makes no sense in this context, since 9/11 was a conspiracy by any definition of the term. It’s just a question of which theory one believes in. (There’s the official theory, the LIHOP theory, and the MIHOP theory. I’m squarely in the LIHOP camp.)

Anyway I don’t think it’s impossible for the Atta passport to have survived, just … remarkable; it’s even more remarkable that it was found.

@Duke of Rat

Nitpick, but the Cirrus SR20 he was flying* only had one engine.

Thanks for the updated info, Duke of Rat. I was still going on the info I’d heard the day of the accident.

@jjimm

Except the planes didn’t just disintegrate, they blew up in several-hundred-degree jet-fuel explosions. Presumably, though, Atta was in the front of the plane (passport in pocket?), and was thus smashed up and propelled forward, avoiding the absolutely vast conflagration coming from the wings and behind.

Makes sense! Still, I think the fire itself was inside the tower – that’s what is said to have caused the weakening of the building, right? I’d guess that even those bodies from the front of the plane were burnt and crushed pretty horrifically (ugh, I hate thinking of this even when it concerns an evil fucker like Atta). There are people whose bodies were never identified even to this day. My point just being that unless his body was pushed outside of the building, Atta and his passport were probably fairly well entombed by fire.

@El Cid Viscoso

I believe “Atta” is depicted as having a carry-on as he moves through security. My leather carry-on is as tough as a football; that’s where I keep my passport (and copy of my wills) when I’m flying.

That’s interesting about the will copy. Do many people do that? I’ve heard of it before, I just didn’t realize it was common practice. What is the purpose? If, God forbid, a plane crashes – on the ground, in an ocean, wherever – what good will having the will do? Wouldn’t having the real thing in your lawyer’s office or in a safety deposit box be enough?

But back to the carry-on. Is leather or vinyl really that tough? Tougher than a jet plane and a 110-story building? I mean, the metal in the WTC buildings was turned into liquid; the cement into powder.

Heck, between these super-strong passports and carry-ons, I’m beginning to think we oughtta be travelling inside flying cows with paper wings.

[Broomstick]

@choie

Hell, I wasn’t even aware we needed passports to get from NJ to NYC!

(Seriously, why was he carrying his passport with him? Was he travelling abroad recently or planning on it, anyone know?)

Pilots are required to carry a government-issued photo ID while “excercising the privileges of their certficiate” as the FAA puts it (pilot licenses in the US do not have pictures on them. Yet.) A driver’s license meets the requirement. So does a passport. Nothing mysterious there, he was merely following the rules.

I mean, how can one compare the likelihood of finding paper-based documents from a twin engine plane crash made at slow speed (the engines were failing, by many accounts)

Nitpick - it was a single engine.

versus finding the same type of documents from amid the devastation resulting from two massive jets flying at full speed into two office buildings, followed by fireballs with such intensity that the heat caused no less than three different buildings – including two of the highest buildings on earth – to crumble into a fine powder?

A LOT of paper flew out of those two buildings. Although it is unlikely Atta’s passport would be one particular piece of paper, it is not impossible. Statistically unlikely events do occur - just ask any lottery winner.

Also, I thought it was more the force of the collapse that reduced things to powder, not so much the heat (although ashes from fires are often powdery)

[Skywatcher]

@choie

(Psst to Lute Skywatcher – I do know Canada has a baseball team, smartypants! More than one, in fact. But surely one doesn’t need a passport going to Canada, does one? I know I didn’t when I went there a few years back. My photo driver’s license was good enough.)

The rules for travelling between the US and Canada changed recently. If passports aren’t required now, they will be by the end of the year.

[Lust4Life]

The complete and utter lack of any evidence or motive to suggest that Di`s death was anything more then tragic but commonplace r.t.a. PROVES that there must be a coverup and where theres a coverup theres got to be a crime as even the dullest child could tell you !