Euty, we understand what you’re doing.
I commend you for it. We all bitch because of the speed of the boards and alot of you do EVERYTHING you can to make this a fun, interesting and intelligent place and I dont want you to think Im making a generalization.
But what was done was wrong.
Huh. Interesting. While I can’t get myself worked up into quite the froth that this seems to have inspired in others, I must say I’m a bit surprised to see Silo banned for this. I’m far from being a big fan of Silo (nothing personal, just gets tiresome hearing about his gigantic fucking cock all the time, you know? ;)) but I’m gonna miss the little dork.
I’m not gonna mod-bash because when it comes down to it, it’s their board, their calls. I’ll just say that I don’t like it.
This has been discussed ad nauseum in ATMB, but lots of folks don’t read that much, so I’ll reiterate.
We’re not going to hack[sup]1[/sup] the VB software. For one thing, we don’t have the resources. For another, it complicates things when/if we upgrade versions.
If Silo had given some indication that he did not intend to use his little workaround, or any contrition at all about publicizing it (we do have email addresses, you know), he’d probably still be a member.
Instead, he ignored our warnings, which started out pretty mild from Euty. Rather than take the chance that he’d ruin search for everyone else, he’s gone. No membership = no searching.
[sup]1[/sup] “Hack” in the VB vernacular is any modification to the software done by a user.
Am I next? doubt it. Why?
When I have a question about something, I email and ask. If I have a suspicion that something will/may cause a problem, I email before posting.
The one time I got a harsh tone from a mod in a corrective way in a thread, I backed off and said ‘sorry, won’t happen again’ (I was introducing a GD tone to GQ thread). and I don’t even generally get into pissing contests with other posters.
What I would have done, is after a mod posted this:
is immediately said ‘sorry, delete the post’ whatever, instead we have him defending his actions by suggesting that ‘few’ people would be able to use the idea anyhow.
was he ‘warned’ for bumping the trolling thread? well, UncleBeer stepped in closed the thread with this comment: “So you want to save your trolling for posterity? I thought you’d moved beyond that, Mike.”- sounds like a friendly reminder to play nice to me.
No warning? Well, since I’d count a mod specifically posting unhappily about me as a warning (do they really need to say ‘ahem, this is an official warning’ each and every time? shouldn’t have to if we’re all adults), I counted 2 from Euty, one from Lynn, and manhattan’s before Silo’s last volley of 'getting a little bent out of shape, now are we?" resulting in Tuba stepping in.
Well, I was going to post a long response, but I see wring has said everything I wanted to say. So I guess I just gotta say, “me too.”
Apparently not. Aparently not sincerely. Apparently so.
I shed no tears for Silo. He wasn’t banned for posting information; a simple perusal of the thread makes that clear. He was banned for attitude. He should have known better. He should have been the last poster on this board to give the administrators attitude.
For those of you minmimizing his offense, please take a moment to read the thread dispassionately. Administrators restricted the search function in an effort to improve performance and availability. Performance and availability are always prime considerations for a website. Silo posted a method to thwart their efforts. The inapropriatness of that action was politely pointed out to him.
At that poiunt, he had exactly one appropriate response: apologize sinceerely. He chose weaseling and lip. Bad answer.
Was the administration’s response vehement? Absolutely. To understand why you have to understand the context. Silo’s history is that context. The fact that his privelidges were restored does not imply that his trangressions were, or should have been, forgotten. A criminal’s past should be buried if he lives an honest life after parole. They should be remembered vividly when he breaks the law again.
Me? No. I don’t piss off Mods and Admins and then expect sympathy.
My first reaction on reading the thread in question was that the banning was abrupt and too harsh. However, since I don’t read all the threads, I don’t know what the overall picture was (e.g. Silo’s MPSIMS bump).
As a random user, I would enjoy the message board more if the reasons for a poster’s banning were kept somewhere, similar to a “your thread has been moved” thread. I’m not saying the moderators need to do this so we can monitor their actions – they can ban whomever they want. But it would keep me (and possibly others) from erroneously assuming that they banned someone for a single remark in a single thread, and make my experience here that much nicer.
Just a suggestion. I’ve always thought the mods do a good job and, in general, try to be fair. I also thought Silo’s remarks in the thread in question were obnoxious and challenging. They didn’t seem ban-worthy to me, though, but I don’t know the whole story.
Am I next?
Nope. I, along with most of the members, have enough basic courtesy to know that the right answer to the statement “You’ve broken board policy” is “Sorry. Won’t happen again” not “So?”
I like Silo. I enjoyed reading his posts. But his answer was obnoxious enough that I suspect that any poster would have been booted for it.
Imagine an analogy. You’re at a party. The hosts are giving away free beer. You take the beer into the living room and start spilling it all over the nice, clean carpet. The host says “What do you think you’re doing? You’re making a mess!”
Should your response be:
A) "Oh geez! Sorry. I apologize. It won’t happen again!
or
B) “So? You don’t like it, clean it up.”
Frankly, I’m getting tired of these mod-bash whine-fests every time someone’s favorite poster behaves like an ass and gets banned. Let’s put the blame where it belongs, 'kay?
I’d bet large sums that if Silo’s last post had been “Aargh. I wasn’t thinking when I posted that info. Sorry to have made more work for you.” or words to that effect, he’d still be here.
Like I said, I’ll miss his stuff. But don’t blame the mods for Silo’s actions.
Fenris
Aww. I’ll miss him. I liked him.
That being said. . . thems the rules and these are our rulers. Our mods and admins work hard, harder than most of us would work.
This is not the first time someone got banned for posting how to “hack” this board. Don’t do it and you won’t be banned. Am I next? I sure hope not. If ever I do anything banworthy I hope I’m given the chance to mend my ways and I hope I have the intelligence and maturity to make the most of that chance.
And, as to the not-so-underlying message in the OP-- yeup, it can happen to you.
I don’t piss off mods and admins and then expect sympathy, either. Just as I would do to an arrogant policeman, a condescending vice-principal (way back when), or the big boss, if they tell me I’m wrong, I say “yes sir, you are correct” and back away quickly.
Even if they’re wrong.
It strikes me that a bit too much might have been read into Silo’s “Go ahead and delete the post; I don’t care” statement.
But I also agree that the more computer-geekly among us should not use their powers against what the board administrators are trying to accomplish.
There seems to be a bit of drama-queening on both sides in this thread.
Silo should write an email, explaining if some of his statements were misconstrued; apologizing if they were not. He should also promise never to do what he was doing with the search feature, or anything remotely like that, on the SDMB ever again. And he should humbly ask for reinstatement.
And maybe he’ll get it. Not my call.
“Silo knew the rules – and knew better – and chose to be a jerk.” - TubaDiva
I see several instances of “jerkiness” in said thread. Is Silo the only one getting banned?
I wouldn’t provoke the mods like that either, but then again were I in the mods place I wouldn’t ban someone with a history of wasting my time at a slight offense.
Now you’re getting the picture…no, the board is not real. No, the people are not real. One of the great things about the web is that people can play “land of make-believe.” Repeat after me: This is not reality.
So, it’s a job? You’re willing to kick in on a paycheck? I did the tutor thing on AOL for a while, and the free service they gave me wasn’t worth the BS I had to put up with. Hell, that was 20 bucks a month. These poor slobs get a coffee mug (maybe). You don’t like the way the guy does his volunteer work to make this a halfway decent place to post? Perhaps you’re the one who ought not let the doorknob hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
C’mon people, it’s a message board. I find this place entertaining, but if they shut the whole thing down, I’d find it about as detrimental to my life as if they canceled “The Simpsons,” i.e. disappointing, but not disastrous.
Ya know . . . I was eating in a restaurant once in Salt Lake City.
An acquaintance of mine was there.
He was being disruptive–talking loudly, throwing ice cubes at his friends, that sort of thing.
The manager of the restaurant asked him to settle down.
He didn’t.
The manager then invited him to leave. Permanently.
So, he left. And didn’t come back. And he lived.
Why?
Because there are hundreds of restaurants in Salt Lake City.
Why is this concept so fucking difficult for some of you children to understand?
It’s a message board. The people who help keep it operating are not school principals, they are not your boss, they are not cops. They do not affect your life.
Rather, if they do, you really need to get out more.
Or do you idiots think this is the only message board on the web?
(And those of you who are about to chime in with the lame “just because I complain doesn’t mean I want to leave” schtick, fuck you and the sorry-ass electrons you rode in on. You don’t like it, leave. You do like it, shut the fuck up and hie thee to GQ or Comments.)
Where was he obnoxious? That’s the part I’m not getting. Silo posts the workaround. Euty says don’t use it. Silo says he doesn’t think it is a big deal. Euty and Lynn say that it is. Before Silo responds to that, Manny gets in his face big-time. Silo says to Manny, not to Euty or Lynn, “Chill, dude. And BTW, while I disagree with y’all, if it’s a problem, get rid of the post where I told people about the workaround.” That seems like an eminently reasonable solution to me.
Silo wasn’t being obnoxious to the mod and the admin who were actually discussing the situation with him - he was disagreeing. He responded “obnoxiously” only when Manny came out of nowhere and started cursing him.
Quite frankly, if any poster had gone after me like Manny went after Silo, there would have been a flame in the Pit, not a mild “angry much?” response.
Nice analogy, but that’s not what happened. Here’s a better one:
You’re on the street outside talking to a cop. You mention that, to avoid traffic, you cut through the empty lot next to your place. The cop says to you that that’s illegal. You say “Aw, what’s the harm?” The cop says that if other people notice you doing it, they might start doing it, and that could cause all sorts of problems, so don’t do it. Before you have a chance to respond, the cop’s partner goes nose-to-nose to you and says “And if I hear of one fucking car going through that empty lot, I’m gonna come down here, haul your ass downtown, and rip up your license and piss on it!”
Would your response be:
A) “Yes sir, officer. That’s perfectly logical.”
or
B) “What’s your problem?”
And of course, if you respond with “B”, should the cops’ response be to throw you up against the hood of the car?
I find it ironic that Silo’s post about the workaround still has not been deleted or edited some 19 hours after it was posted. I find it even more ironic that, due to Silo’s banning, considerably more people have read his post and now have the information then would have had he not been banned.
Wait a minute. He never said that he was going to use it. You take silence as an indication of ill intent? Remind me to strike you from any jury I empanel.
As for your second point, manny, honestly, if someone told you that something you did was wrong, and you disagree with that assessment, are you going to apologize anyway? I would think that you’d ask for an explanation and defend your position at least to some extent before you came around.
I don’t have a personal relationship with Silo, nor much of an opinion one way or another about his posts. And I’ve never disagreed with any banning I’ve witnessed. Hell, this is probably the first time I’ve disagreed with the mods or admins about anything related to Board administration.
But I think this banning was a mistake. Very likely the mistake was caused by Silo’s past, which understandably leads the mods and admins to have a negative interpretation of his actions. But understandable doesn’t mean correct.
Finally, I disagree with the OP that Silo’s banning is a sign of an evil new trend on these Boards. I don’t think that my posting this is going to put me on a black list. It was a simple, understandable mistake. And it is one that can be corrected.
Sua
Okay, I understand the whole “sandbox” analogy. However, I always thought it meant the Mods and Admins still had to play by the rules. They couldn’t have sock puppets, they couldn’t troll and the couldn’t be jerks just for the sake of being jerks. Apparently, this is not the case.
If Silo was banned mostly because he was a jerk (I realize there are other reasons too), then manhattan deserves a big ol’ BANNED under his name too. He is repeatedly a jerk on the board. I don’t mean when dealing with annoying trolls or problem posters, he is routinely an ass. His response in the initial thread was way, way over the fucking top.
And what the hell is this? In this thread (in the Pit), he ends a post with
But he feels free to post
in ATMB? Other posters would have at the very least been officially warned.
I’m not questioning Silo’s banning for the most part. Even though Silo is a good friend of mine I know the Mods and Admins are very, very cautious (and rightfully so) when it comes to people messing with the board, they react strongly. I think it could have been handled better but that’s their call, not mine.
However, something needs to be done about manhattan and his behavior. He was wrong. Plain and simple.
And stofsky, if you don’t see this as a community, fine. But many, many of us do. So far as this goes,
just remember that this details exactly how many of us will feel when you leave.
As could be predicted, I’m 100% behind the admins here. As a matter of fact, shortly before Silo posted how to search any date, I discovered the same weakness, played around a little to test it (on a Saturday when the boards were running fast), and emailed Tuba, rather than post how to circumvent the administration’s attempts to help us all out. You’ll also notice that I was the first person to criticize Silo when he posted the info (though, in retrospect, that may be part of the reason that the admins didn’t remove the post, in which case I apologize).
I figure that I’m probably not next to be banned.
You know what, fuck you. Euty is a wonderful person, and his commitment to this board is beyond question. To even suggest that he has the duty to extend his courtesy and work harder on behalf of those who would be smartasses towards him is simply wrong.
Times like this, I really can’t imagine why anyone would moderate this board. The membership of this board ranges from ingrates (like myself, admittedly) to outright assholes, malcontents, and troublemakers. No one here (myself included) shows the administration the respect and thanks it deserves. Granted, we don’t really have the server capacity for that.
So don’t lecture someone who has put countless hours into making this board the place it is, who has been patient beyond belief with the members here, who rarely sees any sort of gratitude, and never financial remuneration; don’t you dare lecture someone like Euty about duty to the membership here. His piss does more for the spirit of this place than you ever will.
And BTW, if I made the calls around here, referring to any member of the administration as Our Humble Bitch might warrant a warning, if I was in a patient mood. Which would be unlikely if I had to deal with a fraction of what these people do.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SuaSponte *
**
I disagree with your disagreement with my analogy.
In yours, someone isn’t doing anything destructive and is in a publicly owned place.
The SDMB is a private message board. It’s theirs, not ours. They are our hosts, we are their guests. Telling everyone how to mess up the host’s house just isn’t a good idea.
Go back to my analogy for a minute. Imagine if one host said “Whaddaya think you’re doing?!” and another host said “If more people come in here and spill more crap on the carpet I’m throwing your ass outta here.”
Were I one of the hosts, I’d be expecting two magic words:
“I’m sorry”.
“Chill dude”, “Not many people are gonna come in and spill beer, and besides, I’ll only spill a little” and “Hey, why don’t you clean up my mess” are not acceptable answers.
I’m not gonna comment on the mods comments that preceeded the banning, since I firmly believe that the lack of the magic words and the (IMHO) snotty “It’s no big deal, not many people’ll use the workaround, and besides, it’s your job to clean up messes” message escallated the situation.
Fenris