I cannot understand how it is that there is organized religion of any type involving at least two individual people in this, the twenty first century.
just fucking once I’d like to find some Allan Watts in a hotel nightstand.
I just want to second a lot of what Voyager said. Finding errors in the Bible does not disprove the existence of God, it only proves that the Bible is not inerrant. Most of the theists here not inerrant literalists so poking holes in Biblical literacy (which is childishly easy to do) is not a concern to them.
My own agnosticism is based on a lack of proof and what I perceive as a lack of necessity for a deity, not upon Biblical errancy.
Unfortunately I really can’t take the OP very seriously.
As it is though the fact that the person responded “So?” when someone said it just appeared he/she was here to have their beliefs confirmed tells me there’s nothing to be gained by debating this topic with this person.
But again it could just be an honest mistake. Most message boards on the internet don’t hold posters to the same standards that the community here does. So this person may think “debate” of this nature is appropriate here. But they definitely would be served by reading some posts before continuing their SDMB career imo.
Soooo… can we expect more of these incoherent religion threads until your trial membership runs out? Just asking.
Uh oh. I can hear Lib’s footsteps already. 
And I was also thinking along the lines that “the Bible should be used as a tool to build and not a weapon to destroy”…but I like your quirp better.
Once again, it looks like a case of “not seeing the forest for the trees”.
Noooooo…please, God, not the OA again, anything but that… :eek:
For me, it had nothing to do with what is in the bible.
I freely came to my decision due to the specific chemical, physical and environmental factors that caused my brain to arrive in the state it is currently in.
I started having a strong interest in mythology at a young age. My parents got me a subscription to a periodical anthology that had lots of folk tales and myths when I was about six or seven. Pretty cool stuff.
I noticed connections between bible stories and other mythology when I was still pretty young. That was the beginning of the end of my belief in the Judeo-Christian god. It’s kind of hard to believe that your myths are somehow different from someone else’s when there are so many obvious similarities. That in turn makes it hard to believe your god is better or more real than someone else’s.
I got myself in trouble a few times when I asked awkward questions during Sunday school. Pointing out that passages taken out of context don’t mean the same thing as they do in context didn’t make me very popular with the bible study group pastor either. In retrospect that’s not too surprising; no one likes a smart-ass.
I still kept going to church with the family and even went to some youth group meetings in high school. Of course, there were girls involved in the youth group, so that was a pretty good reason for going. Hot chicks asking you to go someplace provide good motivation when you’re a teenage guy.
My mother’s death and my family’s subsequent turmoil were the final nails in the coffin of my faith. While belief seemed to help my relatives, it had the opposite effect with me. I found things easier to deal with if there was no god involved.
I analogize it as the relationship between father and son. YHWH was an abusive father and I was better off not living under his roof. I grew up, figured out who I was, and didn’t really need to deal with his crap any more. He shaped who I was and had an indirect impact on my life through my upbringing, but wasn’t anybody I wanted to spend time with.
I actually went to one more bible study when I was in college. At that meeting, I had an epiphany. People go to church and bible studies because they need it in some way. Religion fills some need in their lives. I didn’t need religion because I had no gap that needed to be filled. I probably went to that meeting because I was, on some level, trying to answer a question. I got the answer I was looking for and never went back.
It basically sounds like what his interest here is not to explain his atheism (as he is not one) or debate but rather to bash and insult anyone who believes in christianity. Due to his obvious anger, this is probably all the result of a real or imagined problem at some point in his life created someone or a group of someones. He clearly has a hatred towards a person or a group of people and has mistakenly misplaced it torwards anyone that participates in any religion. He should instead come to his decisions based off inward thought and personal decision rather than poor actions of someone or a group of people he has known.
This is extremely unforunate and I feel bad for what ever experiences he has had in the past. Whether or not ultimately he becomes a true atheist, I hope that at some point in his life he comes to realize that all christians, jews, muslims or other organized religions are not the enemy that he has declared them to be here. The hurt and beliefs that he experienced was a particular group of individuals and not necessarily representative at all for all members of any religion.
I’m an atheist essentially because I can’t see any good reason why I should believe there’s a god, be it the christian god, Ra, or Quetzalcoatl.
As for the christian religion more specifically, some major reasons why I couldn’t buy in it :
-As you stated, many elements are blatantly false. Given that, why should I believe that the rest is true? That’s essentially the stance also taken by some people who believe in the innerancy of the bible, by the way.
-The bible and the gospels are filled with contradictions. How could I choose the “correct” interpretation? Believers pick and choose in the holy text. By picking and choosing in the gospels, by stressing elements that aren’t usually stressed, I could easily come up with a religious belief, backed by the holy scriptures, that would be completely weird from a christian point of view. And I mean, really weird. And despite not being traditionnal, it wouldn’t be any less supportable than the current established beliefs.
-A lot of elements found in the bible, and especially in the old testament, really aren’t appealing at all, and i would want to worship such a god. The only alternative, once again, is picking and choosing.
-Finally I find several of the fundamental beliefs of the christian religion particularily absurd. The concept of God “sacrificing Himself to Himself in order to allow Himself to changes the rules He Himself established” in particular. Or the Holy trinity. If for some reason I had to convert to one of the monotheistic religions, christiannism would be the last one on my list. And actually, I’d rather pick a dualist religion, which would make more sense to me.
Apart from that, I too think organized religions are a bad thing, and that we would be better off without them.
You know those ‘magic eye’ things, where you hold up a picture of wavy lines and colours in a repeated pattern?
When you look at it long enough, from the right angle or distance, or something, a picture resolves before you?
Never works for me.
Nor me - and I tried everything, honestly - for quite a long time, I did entertain the notion that it was all either just a big conspiracy to which only I was not admitted, or that it was a corporate delusion - in the sense of The Emperor’s New Clothes. I now accept that there are folks out there who have access to an aspect of reality that is forever closed to me.
Some friendly advice, IAMOG: personal insults are verboten in GQ, and inviting them, even in jest, is bordering on trolling. I’d strongly suggest that you read the forum stickies and lurk in a few threads just to get a feel for the place. There are always plenty on religion and the paranormal in here that’ll give you a taste of the way we do things.
On the other hand, trying to imply that any derision of your arguments is necessarily an insult of your person (or that they are prompted by your “getting” anyone, as opposed to simply finding your logic flawed and your premises contrived), is not a particularly good way to establish a serious discussion.
And on the third hand:
not-very-well masked references to trolling are also prohibited in this Forum.
[ /Moderator Mode ]
Just to round out all the possibilities, I’ll point out that I’m an atheist who does participate in organized religion. :eek:
Tho Quakers are a lot more disorganized than most…
So when did such snobbery become de rigueur here? I am certainly not a popular poster, but I read the SDMB enough to recognize an unfair pile-on in the works. This guy may have some skew to his views, but let’s give him the benefit of the doubt. He’s not an atheist? Ok, perhaps not by his own admission of being willing to consider a god figure if it can be proven, but let’s also not get too technical here. The question was what Bible verses or other holy book verses led someone to question or leave their faith. Perhaps those people who’ve experienced this can actually respond (like rjung did). So how about those people who insist on labelling this guy or expounding on the plurality of possible belief systems instead recognize what he’s asking: what turned you off your faith, based on the holy test for your faith (if relevant). Otherwise, read on and let the discussion progress.
I was raised Catholic. I went to Catholic school from grade one to graduation. I am also completely non-religious. My reasons, with regards to the OP, are simply because of the number of contradictions in the Bible. Further, the nasty, unfair and even cruel things in there (such as rjung’s post). The “us vs. them” mentality that comes out, which contrasts with the “love thy neighbour” mentality which makes so much sense. That’s why I am no longer a Christian. I’m not interested in other faiths either because after dropping Christianity, I came to realize that nothing in existence that we know of currently requires a divine being as an explanation, and that a divine being may in fact complicate things unnecessarily.
What I genuinely don’t understand is how one can be faithful by picking and choosing. I just don’t get it. How do you know which is right and which is wrong? Maybe it’s because I’m the all or nothing type, but it seems to me that the book which purports to be divinely inspired as the guide to good Christian behaviour and belief is open to anything but literal interpretation, it causes the whole house of card to tumble. If it was divinely inspired, it’s right and God’s a pretty big joker, or if it’s open to interpretation it’s human-made and thus as flawed as we are and not an effective advertisement for membership in the faith.
For some belivers, these things actually make us more inclined to believe it.
If I were to encounter a creed that seemed to me – finite human that I am – completely sensible and logical, I would be disinclined to believe it on that very ground. A deal too good to be true usually is.
Part of what makes Christianity persuasive to me is that so much of it is mysterious, alien and indeed offensive; both to me here and now, and to the people of the times and places of the Bible’s composition.
Scule, what you say is his main point doesn’t leave any room for debate. Essentially the OP is looking for others who have experienced the same thing as him. So what’s the debate? The closest it comes is when he says that he’d welcome counter experiences. If it’s a pile-on, it’s because it’s at least partially deserved.