ARRRGGGHHH!!! I’m electrocuted! My toast was stuck, I had only a knife handy…
and Q.E.D. didn’t warn me!
“If this was a Pop-Tart, we’d be dead now.”
-Michael Gross, Family Ties
First, let me repeat that I very much believe your report is technically correct and accurate, and I have nothing but respect for you and your posts here. However, I don’t think it’s appropriate to leave risk analysis aside. Surely it was worth at least briefly mentioning, wasn’t it? After all, from my reading the questioner didn’t really express much of an interest in knowing if the behavior was 100% perfectly safe, but seemed more interested if it was reasonably safe. But of course I could be wrong.
Also, I don’t believe you’ve established that it’s stupid. If that’s stupid, then certainly riding or driving an automobile or taking a bath are incredibly, irredeemably insane! My God folks, if you’re going to be afraid of poking a knife in an off toaster, then you must never EVER go inside a vehicle ever again!!
Furthermore, why is mentioning that you’re comparing a ~ 99.99999999% safe act with a putatively 100% safe act so unreasonable? And are you 100% certain that using other methods are truly 100% safe?
And unless someone gives me a pair of wooden tongs as a gift, it strikes me as far more than a little ridiculous to actually spend time and money to avoid a ~ 0.00000005% chance of harm!
I don’t mean to be nit-picky here (although it probably sounds like it), but your report as written is all too akin to very over-worried warnings about the dangers of emissions from power lines or breathing (smokeless) indoor air. Is it really so wrong and/or unnecessary to point out that there’s only a tiny, tiny risk?
I guess that’s the key point where we disagree. It struck me as quite alarmist. But that impression may well be due to the fact that you didn’t compare the risks with other everyday risks, which made knife-poking a toaster seem so very deadly and stupid when it’s really not.
Hell, I’ll sign a waiver! 
What am I missing here???
I am 40 years old and I have NEVER had a problem with removing toast from a toaster with my hands. EVER. I have used many, many, many toasters all different kinds and the bread (or toast have you) pops up and you just take it out.
Why would anyone have trouble? The only thing I can see is if you cram a bagle that is too large into a toaster. But even now toasters are generally made with big bagel widths.
Well, no. Driving isn’t stupid, and neither is making toast. Driving while talking on your cell phone and making toast while fishing the bread out with a metal utensil are. The difference is doing something by choice which adds to the risk. And I did indicate the risk was small. Perhaps you missed this bit:
Almost everything we do has some element of risk to it, but doing anything to make those activities even riskier when there’s no need to is stupid, IMO. But then, even I do stupid things.
Good report, Q.E.D. And I’d like to add that most of your kitchen appliances should be plugged into a GFCI outlet. Assuming it’s functioning correctly, this $7 device could save the life of someone who (stupidly) sticks a knife in the toaster…
A toaster draws what? About 900 watts or so? That’s 16 Ohms. It’s nonsensical to ask whether this is a “high” value or “low” value in the absolute sense. It’s simply… 16 Ohms.
I think all the discussion above about risk analysis neglects the fact that every action we take has two parameters (at least): risk and benefit.
Yeah, diving is riskier than fishing toast out with a knife, but it also gives us (well, me) some benefits I would not have if I were to refrain from driving. What benefit do you incur by sticking that knife in the toaster? Oh, it takes you a few seconds less than it would to fish it out manually? I see.
It reinforces the fact that you’re not some wanking, wooden-tong using pussy, for one thing!
I hate to be picky, but the original report here had several major inaccuracies:
#1: Every toaster sold in the USA since around 1950 has had to have UL approval. This means it has certain required safety features. The main one is the presence of a DOUBLE-POLE switch.
This disconnects both sides of the incoming power from the heating elements, anytime the toaster handle is even slighty out of it’s bottom latch position.
#2: Toasters made since around 1990 also have to meet some strict outer case temperature requirements, which required a complete redesign of most toasters. The redesigns also had a positive effect on toaster safety:
a) The toaster case is now usually made from some thermally-insulating and electrically insulating plastic. This drastically reduces the number of exposed metal parts that one could get a shock from.
b) Gone are the old fragile mica and resistance wire heating elements. Now there’s a more efficient central heating element, much thicker wire and wound on a ceramic rod. Much less chance that your fork could ever reach the element, much less dislodge it so it shorts to a (non-existent) metal case.
So if your toaster is a pre-1950 model, you should probably relegate it to the antique shelf.
If it’s a 1950-1990 model, you’re probably much safer than previously reported, as long as the handle is up. Just don’t stick the fork into the heating elements.
If it’s a 1990+ model, you’d be a real klutz to even reach the heating element, much less get a shock from it.
Oh, and many newer toasters have another feature that helps decrease the need for forking out a slice-- they have springy side- supports that will accept almost any thickness of bread, plus they retract out of the way when toasting’s done, so toast hardly ever sticks in place anymore.
Regards,
grg88
Even with a 1940’s toaster, no-one is going to get shocked unless they are also grounded to earth - which isn’t necessarily hard to do however.
Cement floors and toasting whilst barefoot, and simultaneously clutching the water faucet and digging out the toast with a fork (Shades of Rose Marie Woods and the 18 minute gap, etc)
But hey, it could happen.
I wasn’t aware of this. If toasters employ a DPST power switch then a polarized plug is not needed…
There are lots of opportunities to “be grounded” in a kitchen, which is why GFCI outlets are now mandatory in kitchens…
I have to interject here. And support a number of other posters. While the report is technically correct…
Please add the following:
Never, ever, EVER put ANYTHING metal in an electrical device in an attempt to jiggle its works. NEVER.
In fact, don’t stick anything in. Even if you are ‘sure’ it is insulated. There is always a chance you’ll touch a live component to ground and make all sorts of things ‘hot’.
Just don’t ok. Take my word for it. As a previous designer of PCB’s and power supplies, our worst fears were not component failure but human intervention. No matter how well you design it there is always a nutter who will bypass all your carefully conceived safety cut outs and short himself rather than the appliance.
Please don’t do it. We can’t afford the lawsuits…
In fact.
If the thing doesn’t work. Follow the user manual to check for faults. If it doesn’t mention it check the fuse and cord. IF the cord is damaged, again, do NOT attempt to repair it. Most modern cords are a self contained, sealed unit and not designed to be tampered with so don’t tamper, no matter how much you are tempted. If the manual and fuse fail to rectify it. Take it back to your local hardware store and get it checked out by a professional.
Please. Trying to be clever with electrics is not the happiest course for a long life. Take it from a professional. Would you stick your fingers in a light socket to see if it was working?
Regards,
Arleth.
What Arleth said.
I am really shocked (no pun intended!) to see that people actually DO this on a regular basis. I did a few times, use a knife to spear my toast AFTER it had popped up and after I had unplugged the toaster, but I don’t do that anymore-I use a tooth pick.
You know what toothpicks are?
I mean, d’uh, it just seems like common sense-don’t stick metal instruments into electrical appliances, unless you’re an electrician and fixing something and in that case it would be turned off and hopefully you know what you’re doing.
I thought we were about fighting ignorance. It would be pretty embarassing for someone from the SDMB to win a Darwin. (Well, for most of the Dopers, I’m sure).
My my my, people! You guys are missing the point. QED has it right though. If you feel the need to shove an eatin’ iron (non plastic/plasticized variety) into a plugged-in and turned on toaster, go right ahead. For maximum effect though make sure the toaster is within grabbin’ distance of the kitchen sink faucet (assuming you have metalic plumbing) and get a hand full. Here are some tips to make sure you do it right.
1: Don’t plug it (the toaster) into a GFCI recepticle.
2: Make sure there is more slack in the (toaster’s) power cord than the length of one of your arms.
Since it really only takes a pretty small amount of current through your ticker to upset it’s clock work you’ll be one your way to seein’ if your name appears in the “big book” pretty quickly. And, hopefully, you haven’t had the opportunity to contribute to the shallow end of the pool yet.
OK. Just kidding. Just say no to poking at a “live” toaster (or other energized and/or connected to power equipment, appliances and etc with metalic improvised pokers. While your at it, don’t stick anything into moving gears, belts, wheels or etc. either. As one of aunts always used to say “be sensible”.
Yowza! Did you people even bother to read grg88’s post?
Fighting ignorance is what we are here for, NOT fanatical safety.
So what was the question?
The original answer by Q.E.D. gave a lot of information about the first part. But that information is now in doubt based on information from grg88.
The likelihood of electrocution was based on the information that now looks wrong.
And the only statistic quoted had absolutely no information about how many people are electrocuted by toasters, let alone the number electrocuted by sticking a fork in the toaster.
And yet… the posters are mainly piling on saying “Don’t do this! Just say no to toaster poking!” I defy the non-toaster-pokers to come up with ONE credible report of a toaster poking electrocution. Facts people, not blind fear.
I read grg88’s comments. Assuming he’s correct, the only problem I see w/ Q.E.D.’s post is in reference to the polarized plug and outlet wiring: If the toaster uses a DPST switch then a) a polarized plug is probably not needed, and b) an incorrectly wired outlet would not be a problem. But what if someone is using an older toaster? Then Q.E.D. would be 100% correct.
So cut the guy some slack, will ya? Q.E.D.’s post was very good.
To clarify…
I thank Q.E.D. for his original post. Staff reports really spice up the website. My original intent was merely to point out the misuse of the 15 per year statistic. Misuse of statistics in just this manner is a pet peeve of mine done all too often to make a point in the mass media.
My later comments were mainly directed at those posters piling on with the Safety Police comments.
No added benefit so why take the risk? spouts the Safety Police. Hey! That is for ME to decide for myself. Q.E.D and grg88 have presented us with the information needed for adults to reach their own conclusions. Examining the facts seems to me to indicate that for a normal adult, barring use of an antique toaster and using reasonable caution, you are quite safe.
I also use my table saw without the blade guard. I could start a new thread where you could Safety Police me about that if you’d like a change of pace?
Just to clarify myself as well…
I am not really picking out homicide by toaster as the reason for my own rant, it was simply a convenient subject to ride along on to make my main point.
Indeed, most modern appliances do have many inbuilt safety cut outs. DPST switches and quick blow fuses and the like but there is always the possibility that things inside do not function quite as the manufacturer would like, through an internal fault or user error. Ok toasters aren’t as lethal as they once were but my words are really meant as a safety precaution for any electrical appliance. Especially if you don’t know what you are doing.
Electrics is dangerous stuff.
Look, you are all intelligent people and can do as you like in the end. I for one don’t like the thought of playing around with a power supply where (for a real example for you) the bridge rectifier was hard connected to the metal chassis of the power supply and was wired back to front making the case live. This happened in my own experience and I spent a while with tingly fingers for not obeying proper safety procedures. And I am not exactly a dunce, just lazy. Admittedly it was being tested at the time prior to fitting so it would never have made it to a customer but the point stands.
My father, a qualified Electrician and Radio Operator in the RAF decided, in his infinite wisdom to stick a screwdriver in the bus bar to the mains supply to his house once and ended up on his back with a plastic screwdiver handle congealing from it’s molten state on the floor. And he is an honours degree student to boot.
I once turned up at a friend’s house to find him dismantling an electric shower standing in an inch of water and not having shut off the shower ring. And he works in the electronics testing division of Motorola.
The point is that anyone can make a stupid mistake that they might not otherwise have if given a hint or two.
I’m not preaching, or impeaching stupidity, more than simple safety procedure that may stop oversight or ignorance from killing you.
If you want to poke items into electrical appliances that is fine. It is your choice. Just as long as you understand the risks you are taking.
Best regards,
Arleth.
PS/ This wasn’t a hit at you BoringDad in case you took it wrongly, just a clarification of my own post, prompted by yours.