I’m not saying a person who joins a group automatically espouses the tenets of that group – in fact, I’m saying exactly the opposite.
A person who strongly opposed your hypothetical terrorist group might say “All those terrorists are evil.” Since I’m an undercover policeman in the group, I know that’s not true.
Do you see?
And I’m saying that until we know that you’re the undercover cop-you will be judged by the company you keep and tarred by the same brush.
I suspect that we’ll never reach agreement on this issue so I’m bowing out of the argument.
May you and Aries28 have a most pleasant weekend.
But you’re NOT a terrorist; you’re an undercover policeman.
Do YOU see?
There are some members of the Klan who are not evil but brain-washed. They are programmed by their parents to spout phrases and accusations that they couldn’t begin to understand. These children are not evil. Are children allowed to be members of Scientology?
I am having some difficulty understanding the term ass in the sense that you use it, gobear. If for you it means gullible or foolish*, I would counter that not all Scientologists are gullible or foolish. I am referring now to those that are making money exploiting the gullibility of others. If for you it means someone who is obstinate, stupid or perverse (Webster’s, do you really know all of the members well enough to state definitely that they have one or more of these characteristics? Some of those who have left Scientology and spoken out about it don’t strike me as being any of those things. Yet, at one time they were members. I have to believe that as large a group as it is, there are members who are none of those things.
“All or nothing at all thinking” is not pop psychology. The ability to see shades of gray (as well as the black and white) is a matter of emotional intelligence. It’s often addressed in psychiatric therapy.
Meanwhile, I will ask again. Do any of you have personal experience with the evil actions of Scientologists?
Haj:
I did rather muddle through my comments. I should know better. You will find many errors and poorly constructed sentences in my posts.
I still disagree with your premise though. Maybe your understanding of the meaning of ass is different from mine.
I never said the world was black and white, but by the same token, neither is it a monotonous field of grey. I’m not interested in polarizinf issues, but I’m also not interested in pretending there are no such things as good and evil.
But I’m NOT an undercover policeman. I’m a marketing manager.
See, this is another fallacy – you’ve got marketing managers posing as undercover policemen, when in reality we’re secretly the scout force for the alien invasion group from the planet Woombar. 
I think jlzania is right – I’m not going to convince anyone else here, and y’all aren’t gonna convince me. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this.
Aries28, I think we are trying to determine if Tom Cruise is an ass in a round about way. If all Scientologists are asses, then Tom Cruise is an ass (whatever that means). Until I have been convinced that all Scientologists are asses, I willing to give Tom Cruise the benefit of the doubt. (Or if someone can describe specific incidents of Tom Cruise’s evil actions, I will entertain the thought.)
Two or three posts ago, I accidentally included a quote from someone else at the bottom. Sorry.
Ok jumping in here. I have to agree with Sauron on the all scientologist’s are asses statement. Not on the semantics lesson.
All scientologist’s are not asses, they people who control it are the asses. Scientology is a CULT people. People can be brainwashed very easily by a pyschologist disguised as a drug rehibilitation counselor. I wouldn’t say that those who are influenced by thier mind controlling are assholes. They are not gullible either, for the most part.
I should get my mom in here, she wrote her thesis on cults.
Exactly. That’s why it is unfair to expose SDMB to the same risk. Cruise is a litigious fuck (he can’t sue me for that, it’s proven true!) But he has sued over speculation and “false” claims over his sexuality, and could well do again.
I understand your frustration, but I believe everyone has a right to privacy. I don’t see why someone shouldn’t have the the right to a particular career without having to push the rights of a certain sub-group (or more mainstream group) that they belong to. It might be hypocritical, it might be weak, it might be despicable to many people, but it’s still their right. People don’t have to be activists and support the cause just because they’re rich and powerful.
Now hypocrisy - that’s a different case. Closeted people of a particular persuasion speaking openly against that persuasion deserve to be outed, just as do politicians running on family values tickets that whore around on their wives.
How often do you see Rupert Everett playing mainstream heterosexual romantic heroes, as constitute the main male characters of the biggest money-taking blockbuster films? Certainly openly gay actors can work, but don’t try and tell me they don’t face prejudice, particuarly in an industry where even black and white heterosexual people are rarely paired together on screen in major movies.
There’s a reason Rock Hudson married Doris Day, and tragically, although the situation today should be miles improved, to some extent that reason still holds.
Remember the furore about Christian groups boycotting Finding Nemo because Ellen Degeneres, a lesbian (faint!), voiced one of the fish?
Believe me, if they are using Tom Cruise as a spokesmodel, they’ve got blackmail worthy material on him, because they cannot let the slightest possibility of Tom’s changing his mind to exist. I can’t think of a single case of a high profile member such as Mr. Cruise ever publically leaving the COS, in fact.
Okay, I just gotta say one last thing and then we’ll agree to disagree Sauron.
An undercover cop is not part of the group. He may appear to be, to anyone not aware of his undercover…uh…NESS… but he’s still not part of the group.
Whew. Just had to get that out. Sorry. You and Aries have a fabulous weekend.
You mean onscreen, right? They weren’t married in real life . . .
I never really knew anything about Scientology, but these threads got my curious. So I cruised their site and got this little gem which I thought you all might find amusing…
bolding mine
link: http://www.scientology.org/en_US/religion/catechism/pg011.html
Someone should inform Mr. Cruise about that…
What if a person has some friends who are into Scientology, and they say to him “Hey, friend! Why don’t you check out some of this Scientology stuff with us? It’s pretty cool. You get to meet interesting people, and we have parties and go on canoe trips and stuff. It’ll be fun!”
And the person says “Well, what do you Scientologists believe in?” And the friends say “We believe that knowledge is power, people should work to realize their human potential, and that we are the descendants of extraterrestrials.”
And the person thinks “Well, I don’t think I buy that third one, but the first two sound okay. Allright, I’m in. My friends seem to enjoy it, how bad can it be?”
I wouldn’t call that person an ass. Would I call a person who would call that person an ass an ass? No, I’d be more likely to say they were mean and judgemental.
No, he sued in exactly one instance, when a French magazine published a claim by a porn star that he had sex with Cruise. Nobody here is making that claim.
Exaggerated. One guy’s Web site said that, and it’s been pretty well ignored; check the box office stats.
Perhaps, but considering no other high-profile member has existed, it’s not a fair statement to make. It’s more likely he just plain believes in it and the one-awful “blackmail” material isn’t necessary.
lezlers, I totally support the separation of church and state. But as long as the faith-based initiative is going to be the law, I can’[t blame the Scientologists for trying to get their share.
Thinking about founding a church myself…
gobear, Cruise also sued a German newspaper for claiming he was sterile. So that’s two lawsuits under his belt.
Unless I’m misreading what you said, this is actually wrong. (Unless by high-profile, you meant outspoken…in which case John and Kelly talk about Scientology a lot as well…)
I didn’t know a lot about Scientology myself, so I also went through some of those links.
Other Hollywood Celebs involved with Scientology include:
Kirstie Alley
Pricilla Presley
Jenna Elfman & her actor husband (someone I’d never heard of)
There may have been a few more, but I was actually shocked to learn about these three.
~J
Oops. I thought they had a lavender marriage. Who am I thinking of then?