Also a Steelers fan and also agree with Enginerd.
I cannot fathom how that was not intentional. The head coach should either be watching the play on the field or finding his special teams coach to chew his ass out for yet another fuck up. Perhaps he should be talking to the OC and to Roethlisberger.
The last thing he should be doing is standing partially on the field with his back to the play, staring off aimlessly.
Saint Cad - Here is the rule, and they ought to enforce it.
[QUOTE=NFL Rule Book]
All team personnel must observe the zone restrictions applicable to the bench area and the border rimming the
playing field. The only persons permitted within the solid six-foot white border (1-1) while play is in progress on the field
are game officials. For reasons involving the safety of participating players whose actions may carry them out of bounds,
officials’ unobstructed coverage of the game, and spectators’ sightlines to the field, the border rules must be observed by
all coaches and players in the bench area. Violators are subject to penalty by the officials.
Penalty: Loss of 15 yards. (Unsportsmanlike Conduct.) Enforcement is from:
a) the succeeding spot if the ball is dead;
b) the previous spot if the ball was in play; or
c) whatever spot the Referee, after consulting with the crew, deems equitable. (Palpably Unfair Act.)
[/QUOTE]
The Ravens should have been awarded 15 yards from the post-whistle spot of the ball. I can see an argument that the ref could call for a repeat of the play with a 15-yard penalty assessed against the kicking team, but this seems to have been a Palpably Unfair Act.
Hentor - Hasn’t Tomlin stated that he was watching Jones on the scoreboard screen? Which means he was watching Jones run toward where he was standing. He wasn’t staring off aimlessly, he was watching a view of the play that showed him exactly what the effect of his little step would be.
And the league has stated that they will be “downgrading” the officiating crew for not having made the call, apparently obvious, to penalize the Steelers for Tomlin’s transgression. I think it’s safe to assume we definately will be seeing an increased awareness and enforcement of this zone in the future.
Good. Jones had a clear sideline path to the goal line, and he deviated from it for an obvious reason and was tackled. Since at least one official had to be watching Jones to verify that he stayed in bounds, I don’t understand how a flag was not thrown at the time.
Yeah, almost every time I have seen a player, coach, photog get WHACKED on the sideline by a player coming out of bounds, they have been in the white zone. I’ve often wondered why it seems so lax in the enforcement.
The right call there is to award the touchdown.
First, I agree with the argument that it’s irrelevant if Tomlin did it intentionally or not. Disrupting a potential scoring play from the sideline is a SERIOUS offense. Far more serious than the Alosi issue because it involved a ball-carrier who could have scored. This is closer to the Dicky Maegle / Tommy Lewis fiasco.
Personally I think it defies logic to think Tomlin simply go lost out there, if this were a trainer or equipment guy I might buy it, but there’s no way the coach is unaware of the play that’s happening there.
I know the Spygate thing is easy to bring up here, but unlike Spygate this obviously directly impacted the outcome of a play. Spygate, while slimy, was of only subjective value to the Pats and may or may not have influenced outcomes. There’s no ambiguity here.
I think that would have been a good remedy for the situation. Do you know which rule allows the awarding of a TD? I thought Rule 13 Article 4 said the penalty was 15 yards.
Personally, I’m not sold that it was intentional, for the comment upthread that he took a step toward first, I could also see that as planting the foot to move out of the way. Regardless, as far as the rules here go, intention doesn’t matter. I seriously doubt that most facemask penalties are intentional, yet they still get the flag. So, I feel like trying to work out the intention is a red herring.
That said, it seems like the officiating crew blew the call. I think based on the rule posted upthread, the appropriate action was to call the Steelers with unsportsmanlike conduct and 15-yards from the spot at the end of the play.
I think fining Tomlin is appropriate, and he should probably be suspended for a game too. If he’s not suspended by the league, I think the Steelers should consider it as a gesture of good faith.
As far as draft picks, I agree with the general sentiment in this thread that even floating the idea out there is inappropriate. I think draft picks are a much harsher penalty and shoudl be reserved for more systemic issues. Yes, this is bad and could have cost their opponents the game, but it’s also isolated to a single game. It doesn’t make sense to me to punish the team outside of the game. I think the Jets one, because it took place with multiple players across multiple games. So while I think the Jets deserved it and didn’t get it, doing so here is inconsistent.
Regardless of what the final penalty is, I’d like to just see the decision made and have everyone move on.
In this video, the NFL VP of officiating mentions that the interference could have been deemed a “palpably unfair act” by the officials on the field, in which case they would have had the discretion to rule the play a touchdown.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000292411/Official-Review-Tomlin-s-antics
I read a story earlier today in which the league said they are waiting to see if the 4-point difference has an impact on the playoff picture because of tie-breakers before they decide on the draft pick penalty. I can’t find the story right now.
Thanks.
Another theory, on some TV sports show, they said the draft order based on the final standings of the reg season are what they might be waiting for.
Actually, if influencing outcomes is your issue, there is nothing but ambiguity in this case. The Ravens won. Tomlin’s behavior did not impact the outcome at all.
The truth is, as much as you or i might believe Tomlin knew what he was doing, there is no way to prove it. And it is quite possible he was zoned out watching the jumbotron, and that runs a few seconds behind the action on the field, doesn’t it? Even if it doesn’t, he might have been watching it and realized at the last minute "oh shit! I’m in the way! and bounced backward.
It’s also true, however that regardless of whether or not Tomlin knew what he was doing, he was in the wrong spot on the field and there should be a penalty of some kind that would be able to be consistently leveled against anyone in a similar situation. Awarding a TD certainly would solve the problem, and i wouldn’t be surprised if the NFL redefine the rule on this issue in the offseason.
I have no problem with awarding a TD on this play. Even if he wouldn’t have scored, any interference by someone from the sideline who is in that white buffer zone should be penalized with the opposing team receiving a TD. That will keep people off of that white line, you can bet on that.
You suggest that giving a TD on that play is the right penalty. No argument, but going from that to losing a draft pick is overkill and disproportionate to the “crime”.
And during the game, the refs didn’t even flag the Steelers for unsportsmanlike conduct, which should have ben called.
This.
I didn’t see the game… did the Ravens indeed end up scoring a touchdown on that possession? Approximately how much longer did that take?
This is wrong a couple of different ways. The most obvious one is that Omniscient said it affected the outcome of the play, and everybody agrees about that part. And it did influence the outcome of the game: if Jones had scored a touchdown, Pittsburgh might not have had the chance to tie the game in the final minute.
No, they kicked a field goal. And they won the game by two points, with the Steelers having a chance to tie the game with about a minute to go. If they had converted a two-point try they could have sent the game to overtime, and they might not have had that opportunity if Jones had scored a touchdown.
I struggle to see how this is not a palpably unfair act.
The rule posted about sideline infractions uses this justification:
Nothing about interfering with a active play or being on the field of play. Clearly this is in regards to Tomlin being in the white area, not on the field.
The only penalty that I know of that addresses someone interfering with a live play is the unfair acts clause.
Agree with this! Losing a pick is too draconian, relative to the infraction.
Without commenting on Tomlin specifically, the point of penalizing the organization as well as the person is that it encourages the boss to say to the employee “you’d better fucking not do this again.” Tomlin can afford the fine, although I’m sure if stings; but there’s some value in making sure the team knows the NFL is really pissed.
I’m surprised that so many people think a coach stepping onto the field mid-play and stopping a scoring play is a “relatively minor infraction”. He didn’t go all Woody Hayes on him, but this is so blatantly outside the bounds of gamesmanship I can’t fathom the permissiveness in this thread.
What would you say if Tom Thibodeau reached out and shoved LeBron mid-shot on a buzzer beater?
If there’s even the slightest hint that Tomlin did this on purpose he has to be fired. That it happened at all is a huge deal. I don’t think the 2% impact on his salary even registers on the meter of adequate punishment.
It doesn’t natter if it was intentional. He wasn’t even supposed to have a his foot in the three-foot-wide sideline stripe, let alone on the actual field of play. I really hope this will get officials to actually enforce the sideline rules. Maybe it will trickle down to the numbskull high school coaches I’ve had to dodge or run into reffing games.
In the (unaired) video that can be found here, Tomlin clearly takes a large step from his spot in the white zone to much closer to the field of play. You don’t mean that step do you? You mean his little hop to avoid a collision when Jones is almost right on top of him, right? Because I can’t envision any way that Tomlin’s large step toward the field of play as Jones is coming up the sideline to be as you describe it.