Tony Blair's speech -- "History will forgive"

[Desmostylus]

*Originally posted by leander *
**But to say that unemployment was higher under Clinton is spurious and silly. **

It’s factually correct. To say that unemployment is currently the at highest level in 20 years, or in 10 years, is factually incorrect.

Originally posted by tomndebb
…this hijack is now at an end.

Cite?

[milroyj]

Did GDP experience two (or more) consecutive quarters of negative growth? When? That’s what I am asking for a cite on.

[system]

Milly:

The two consecutive quarters is not a hard and fast definition. It is one of several rules of thumb.

One can debate whether the economic performance over the past three years has been a recession or not, but the 2 quarters is but one benchmark.

[milroyj]

*Originally posted by tomndebb *
You are now pretending that there was no such event, although it was not as though no one else noted it, including the St. Louis Federal Reserve, [the Chicago Federal Reserve](www.chicagofed.org/publications/economicperspectives/ 2002/3qepart2.pdf), the UAW, and a few other groups.

Your second link doesn’t work, and a link to the UAW is just a tad biased, don’t ya think?

[system]

I believe, to head off the inevitable return that the following is necessary:
http://www.moneychimp.com/glossary/recession.htm
Recession

Two consecutive quarters of declining GDP.

An alternate definition is any economic downturn significant enough to be declared a recession by the National Bureau of Economic Research, based on employment data and other indicators; see the NBER’s website, www.nber.org.

Other definitions are also advanced although in re the US they may or may not be that relied on.

Further to this, from teh NBER on this

http://www.nber.org/cycles/november2001/

FAQs

Q: The NBER has dated the beginning of the recession in March 2001. Does this mean that the attacks of September 11 did not have a role in causing the recession?

A. No. Before the attacks, it is possible that the decline in the economy would have been too mild to qualify as a recession. The attacks clearly deepened the contraction and may have been an important factor in turning the episode into a recession.

Q: The financial press often states the definition of a recession as two consecutive quarters of decline in real GDP. How does that relate to the NBER’s recession dating procedure?

A: Most of the recessions identified by our procedures do consist of two or more quarters of declining real GDP, but not all of them. But our procedure differs in a number of ways. First, we use monthly indicators to arrive at a monthly chronology. Second, we use indicators subject to much less frequent revision. Third, we consider the depth of the decline in economic activity. Recall that our definition includes the phrase, “a significant decline in activity.”

Now, I do hope that this settles the issue.

Usually it is not helpful to argue from ignorance.

[system]

*Originally posted by milroyj *
**Your second link doesn’t work, and a link to the UAW is just a tad biased, don’t ya think? **

Don’t be absurd. Tom was simply offering up (yet more) evidence of the recession being noted.

Now you’ve had your fun, run along and play now.

Oh, the link is http://www.chicagofed.org/publications/economicperspectives/2002/3qepart2.pdf for the Chicago Fed.

[milroyj]

*Originally posted by Collounsbury *
**Usually it is not helpful to argue from ignorance. **

Nor is it helpful to argue from arrogance.

[system]

*Originally posted by milroyj *
**Nor is it helpful to argue from arrogance. **

Sure it is. And at least 3.5 times more fun as well. The most fun is actually knowing what one is talking about, although that is a bourgeouis luxury in some parts.

[London_Calling]

Ah yes, Recession: A weapon of mass devaluation.

[milroyj]

*Originally posted by Collounsbury *
Don’t be absurd. Tom was simply offering up (yet more) evidence of the recession being noted.

The UAW noting a recession is rather like PETA noting the size of chicken cages.

[elucidator]

There must be some sort of SDMB Bermuda Pentangle where threads go in “Is Tony Blair A Noxious Lickspittle?” and come out “Whither Recession?”

[leander]

*Originally posted by Desmostylus *
**It’s factually correct. To say that unemployment is currently the at highest level in 20 years, or in 10 years, is factually incorrect. **

Oh Lord. Clinton inherited a very high level of unemployment. It then went down. It is now the highest it has been in nearly ten years. During Clinton’s tenure it was “the lowest in modern times.” (White House report)

I think you should stick to little Johnny politics…your obtuse argument is annoying and irrelevant. And you have yet to refute any of my other assertions; not surprising, but still if you propose a falsehood you should try to back it up, matey.

[samclem]

milly said

The UAW noting a recession is rather like PETA noting the size of chicken cages.

THAT’s your best shot? Embarrassing. But not out of character.
:rolleyes:

[MEBuckner]

Moderator’s Notes:[ol]
[li]If anyone wants to start a new thread (or threads) about the definition of a recession or the relative economic prowess of the Clinton and Bush (II) Administrations, please feel free to do so.[/li]
Colly and Sammy Clem: Don’t make fun of other people’s names. Do you think it makes you sound smart? It does not make you sound smart. Don’t do that.[/ol]

[elucidator]

Does that include not calling me 'luci? Not that they have, but can you make the other guys quit it too?

[samclem]

Sorry for doing that. I won’t do it again.

Not my usual style.
Probably the only time I’ve done it. I know that doesn’t excuse.

[MEBuckner]

*Originally posted by elucidator *
Does that include not calling me 'luci? Not that they have, but can you make the other guys quit it too?

If anybody calls you 'luci in Great Debates, they’ll have some ‘splainin’ to do.

[London_Calling]

Yeah, what MEBuckeroo said!

Speaking as the originator of 'luci (I believe), it’s quite clear the lady doth protest too much.

[elucidator]

Werewolf of London I assure you most strenuously that any resemblance between myself and a lady exists entirely in your feverish imagination. I am quite too old to undergo the surgery that would be required to change me into a lesbian.

[London_Calling]

Oh, and I won’t use the abbreviation again. Had no idea you were fussed. Sorry.

And apologies also to the very fine Moderator, MEB. Just too good an opportunity . . . sorry!