[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
It’s somewhat hinted close to the beginning, though. When Dorothy gets sucked up by the hurricane, one of the people she sees outside is Elmira, pedalling away like mad. How much of this is actually hallucination is unclear (I assume Elmira transforming into the WW of the W is an unambiguous sign of crossing over), but assuming Elmira got conveniently killed isn’t a huge stretch, nor is assuming that after a hurricane cuts a swath through downtown Kansas, the local sheriff might not care so much about taking some yappy dog for a ride.
[/QUOTE]
If a hurricane ever had the power to wreck Kansas, I sincerely hope it didn’t come ashore in my state.
[spoiler]…was there any part of that story that wasn’t a plot hole? I mean, what’s the point of the Goblet of Fire competition in the first place? IIRC, it’s some sort of team building exercise between different magic schools. Is that really important enough to potentially kill a bunch of students every few years? Can’t they just go on a camping trip or something? (Preferably to a set of woods not inhabited by giant spiders, of course.) They say they don’t yet younger students compete because it’s so dangerous, but when Harry’s name shows up in the goblet, they not only let him compete, they kidnap two of his friends and throw them in a lake full of carniverous merfolk. The logic being, apparently, that if you’re going to imperil one child for no particular reason, you might as well imperil three of them.
Man, that was a stupid movie.[/spoiler]
[/QUOTE]
I mix up what was said in the book vs. in the movie, but at least in the book it was said that they hadn’t held the tournament in over a hundred years because it was too dangerous. But they were confident that with the age restriction and other steps to make it safer, no one would die this time. [spoiler]And they would have been right if Voldemort hadn’t interfered.
Also, I think it was suggested that Dumbledore would never have actually allowed the kids in the lake to get hurt – but Harry stupidly thought they were in real danger and thus insisted on trying to save them all. (For this he was awarded extra points – apparently it’s better to be heroic then to have the brains to recognize when heroism is totally unnecessary.)
One thing I really can’t defend is the fact that Harry was forced to compete. They said “The Goblet of Fire is a binding magical contract”, as if to say that once his name came out it superceded the age restriction and their hands were tied. But how the hell can you enter into a “magical contract” if someone else signed your name without your permission? Harry was right there saying “I didn’t put my name in”, and yet he had to compete anyway? IANAEIWL*, but that seemed pretty ridiculous.[/spoiler]
One thing I really can’t defend is the fact that Harry was forced to compete. They said “The Goblet of Fire is a binding magical contract”, as if to say that once his name came out it superceded the age restriction and their hands were tied. But how the hell can you enter into a “magical contract” if someone else signed your name without your permission? Harry was right there saying “I didn’t put my name in”, and yet he had to compete anyway? IANAEIWL*, but that seemed pretty ridiculous.
[/quote]
It’s a weak point, to be sure. Here’s the best answer I’ve come up with for it:
[spoiler]I don’t recall if the line is in the movie, but in the novel, Moody explains that the Goblet was tampered with to make it think there were four schools competing. He doesn’t mention anything about tricking it into accepting someone else’s name–and he would know, as he’s the one that did it. We must assume that when the Goblet was created, there were no age restrictions, and that it was not designed to require that each candidate submit their own name–perhaps the early custom was for headmasters to come up with a short list of candidates and submit them.
The Goblet is described at one point as an extremely powerful artifact. If all it does is pick the most qualified competitor for each school, it doesn’t seem all that formidable. Given the “binding contract” business, it seems likely that the Goblet itself has the power to enforce the contract in some way, either by punishing a champion who refuses, or by forcing the champion to compete unwillingly. Consider how much worse it would have been for Harry to say, “Right. Enough of this. I’m not going into the lake.”–only to find himself dragged unwilling and unprepared into the water by the Goblet’s magic?[/spoiler]
If you want to see the whole affair mocked mercilessly, Sluggy Freelance just wrapped up a parody, with special attention to the contract silliness.
[QUOTE=Leaper]
Oh, and as for Nightcrawler teleporting thing, I wanted to make sure that those discussing it understood that it was a practical, self-imposed limitation, not a mental block or anything like that - teleporting blind runs the risk of you bamfing into existence right in the middle of a solid object.
[/QUOTE]
No, teleporting blind runs a risk unless, apparently, hypnotized, overly motivated, into open air (with no visual cues), or when the plot needs for you to.
I don’t think any of the plot holes in Raiders of the Lost Ark really matter in face of the biggest plot hole in the movie–Indy should have stayed home. He literally should have stayed home and graded his papers and flirted with the girls in his class and maybe spent a few nights drinking and reflecting on how nice it would be to find the Ark.
He led the Nazis to Marian where they were able to find the medallion.
He figured out the Nazis were digging in the wrong place.
He delivered the Ark to them.
He is the reason they kept the Ark long enough to open it.
And oh, by the way, God doesn’t need some archeology professor to protect His one-way radio to Heaven. He had the whole thing under control, and if Indy hadn’t been involved, the Ark would be sitting quietly on an abandoned island where it’d probably be lost once again.
Indy is the reason all the bad shit happens in the movie. Indy doesn’t fix anything or resolve any of the conflicts. Indy is pretty much utterly useless in every way, except to cause more problems.
[QUOTE=pepperlandgirl]
I don’t think any of the plot holes in Raiders of the Lost Ark really matter in face of the biggest plot hole in the movie–Indy should have stayed home. He literally should have stayed home and graded his papers and flirted with the girls in his class and maybe spent a few nights drinking and reflecting on how nice it would be to find the Ark.
[/QUOTE]
He’s more useless than that. Let’s say Indy wasn’t around to lead the Nazis to the Ark.
Nazis get the medallion from Marion
Nazis correctly find the Ark
They open the Ark. The omniscient God, knowing the Nazis are up to no good, melts them each time they open it.
So, even without Indy, the outcome would’ve been the same. There is no way the Nazis could get past #3. There would be no way to “fool” an (the?) omnipotent deity.
[QUOTE=tim314]
Has anybody mentioned “Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire”, yet? Enjoyable book/movie, but the villain has the most unnecessarily convoluted plan I’ve ever heard.
[/QUOTE]
Voldemort isn’t exactly the most intelligent villain around, as demonstrated repeatedly throughout the entire series. But yes, this one takes the cake as The Rube Goldberg Convoluted Plot Of The Year.
[QUOTE=HubZilla]
…3. They open the Ark. The omniscient God, knowing the Nazis are up to no good, melts them each time they open it.
So, even without Indy, the outcome would’ve been the same. There is no way the Nazis could get past #3. There would be no way to “fool” an (the?) omnipotent deity.
[/QUOTE]
And the characters in the movie know this information… how?
A lot of movies’ plots fall apart with 20/20 hindsight.
[QUOTE=HubZilla]
3. They open the Ark. The omniscient God, knowing the Nazis are up to no good, melts them each time they open it.
[/QUOTE]
That isn’t exactly a given. Indy and pals have to keep their eyes closed to avoid being melted along with the nazis. So the Nazis just carry the thing to a large hill in visual range of the enemy, put their blindfolds on and open. Presto, instant Lake of Molten Soldiers.
In the original novel (aka, the old testament), the Israelites carried the ark before them to destroy their enemies. For all we know, the big secret of the priests could have been that they were all blind, or blind-folded. All they do is walk around screaming “Hey, look at me!” while carrying this box that melts anyone stupid enough to actually look at it.
“Ok Shem, the battle is over, we’ve melted all the Hittites. Go get the priests before they carry the ark through our own villages.”
“Fuck you Ishmael! I’m not going around looking for that thing! Just let 'em carry it around until they get tired. They’ll figure it out.”
[QUOTE=HubZilla]
He’s more useless than that. Let’s say Indy wasn’t around to lead the Nazis to the Ark.
Nazis get the medallion from Marion
Nazis correctly find the Ark
They open the Ark. The omniscient God, knowing the Nazis are up to no good, melts them each time they open it.
So, even without Indy, the outcome would’ve been the same. There is no way the Nazis could get past #3. There would be no way to “fool” an (the?) omnipotent deity.
[/QUOTE]
But that’s not a plot hole. That’s just a fact about the plot. There’s no inconsistency or unresolved set-up or anything like that.
I’m pretty God didn’t like Nazis, in light of how the swastika logo on the crate got burned out during the ark’s shipping. Likely, any effort by a Nazi to open the ark would’ve met with disaster.
Semi related, in the taxi-driver sequence of Heavy Metal:
The alien bad guy goes to great, lethal lengths to acquire the Loc-Nar. As soon as he opens the box, poof, he dies. What the fuck…?
According to the EU, most starships larger than a fighter have an “emergency hyperdrive.” It can get you to another star system, but is extremely slow. It’s a post-hoc handwave that’s not remotely hinted at in the movie, but it works for me.
[/QUOTE]
There are also some fan theories floating about which state that they actually did head for Bespin at sublight speeds: thanks to relativity, this took a few weeks for Han and Leia but a few months for everyone else (allowing Boba Fett and Darth Vader to arrive first and set their trap, and giving Luke more time to train under Yoda.) The backup hyperdrive story is official, though.
I still don’t understand the rescue plan in Return of the Jedi, though. “Hmmm, our friend has been kidnapped by an evil gangster. Let’s arrange it so three more of our team get captured as well!” And what was Leia going to do when Han was out of the carbon freeze? Run off with him, leaving Chewie and the droids behind?
[QUOTE=Miller]
… According to the EU, most starships larger than a fighter have an “emergency hyperdrive.” It can get you to another star system, but is extremely slow. It’s a post-hoc handwave that’s not remotely hinted at in the movie, but it works for me.
[/QUOTE]
Wasn’t one of the main problems in ESB about how the MF couldn’t launch into hyperspace? Why didn’t they just use the “emergency hyperdrive”? It might not have been too fast, but it would’ve prevented them from being chased by a goodly portion of the Empire’s navy. At least they could’ve disappeared and avoided being shot at.
[QUOTE=Duhkecco]
This has little to do with excellent marksmanship. Quite the opposite: How could Batman (in a high-tech Batplane, using machine guns) miss The Joker?
Also, how could a single bullet from a handgun take down the Batplane?
[/QUOTE]
Never bothered me. Jack Napier was always extremely superstitious (remember his “lucky deck” with the bullet hole in it?). To me it was kind of implied that as the Joker, his luck was somehow amplified to the point where it would provide him with some personal protection. No stranger than being bitten by a radioactive spider and getting superpowers, or something equally ludicrous I suppose.
As for taking the Batplane down in a single shot, it was obviously an attempt on the Joker’s part to make some “wonderful toys” of his own, such as a super pistol. He was always into odd weapons…
[QUOTE=JohnT]
Wasn’t one of the main problems in ESB about how the MF couldn’t launch into hyperspace? Why didn’t they just use the “emergency hyperdrive”? It might not have been too fast, but it would’ve prevented them from being chased by a goodly portion of the Empire’s navy. At least they could’ve disappeared and avoided being shot at.
[/QUOTE]
I dunno. I can fanwank it, and say that they need to setup the other hyperdrive before they can use it, so they had to escape from the Imperials first, but as far as I’m aware, the official word is “back up hyperdrive” without additional elaboration.
[QUOTE=Miller]
I dunno. I can fanwank it, and say that they need to setup the other hyperdrive before they can use it, so they had to escape from the Imperials first, but as far as I’m aware, the official word is “back up hyperdrive” without additional elaboration.
[/QUOTE]
The reverse gear still worked so they were able to back up all the way to Bespin.
[QUOTE=Zebra]
The other Nazi sub plot hole
Getting the crate into the sub, while on the high seas, would have been darn near impossible.
Heck, it may be impossible to get anything that big into a WWII sub after it was built.
[/QUOTE]
The Germans Type II U-boat used 21 inch torpedoes, IIRC. The torpedo loading hatch has to be big enough for that. Torpedoes could be reloaded at sea, at least they were in WW2 when resupplying from a milch-cow sub.
The Ark itself was at least 27" wide and 27" tall, so the crate would be, say 29" by 29" by 47", minimum. Then add the kapporet and the cherubs, and you have a crate that probably won’t fit through any hatch.