Rumour has it that some national retail gasoline brands are better than others. Mostly having to do with the amount of additives in the fuel. More additives = less engine gunk buildup over time.
I’ve googled around some and the popular opinion seems to support that (much to my surprise).
My cars run on premium fuel so I use 93 octain exclusively, since it’s the highest commonly available.
So looking to see if SDMB experts can firmly confirm that those not on the list, i.e. Sunoco, is in fact not as good as those on the list.
If this turns out to be a matter of opinion, I’m sure the mods will drive it over to the appropriate forum.
Looks to me like bullshit marketing for gasoline additives, somewhat like the ads for “Ethyl” back in the 50s featuring smiling happy drivers whose cars were running so smoothly (which modern marvel turned out to be poisonous tetraethyl lead that was slowly killing us all and is now illegal).
One thing I’m pretty sure of is that in terms of basic gasoline, the output of any given refinery can end up anywhere, so the basic stuff is all the same, including the discount stations – the delivery guy just dumps different additives into the tanks when he fills them. I have this on pretty good authority and as a confirmation, all of the tankers I see these days making gas station deliveries are unmarked.
As for additives, I can only venture a humble opinion that it’s like laundry detergents. Every major brand is “the best”. And every no-name is “just as good, but cheaper”. IMHO, it’s the same marketing BS. Anecdotally, I’ve driven many cars and used many different brands of gas for many decades and never noticed any difference between them. There were some forum posts (not here) a while ago in which several posters agreed that Shell was crap. Yet there it is in your “top tier” list. And in my experience, Shell is neither better nor worse than any other gas I’ve used. I fill up with whatever is cheaper or most convenient. And I think that about sums it up, in my unprofessional, anecdotal experience.
Also, there’s a no-name discount station not too far from me where I go sometimes, and I’ve seen ambulances and police cruisers filling up there. So one has to wonder: is this particular no-name using amazing additives that help these emergency vehicles perform better? Or is it that it makes no difference whatsoever and they’re using it because it’s cheap and convenient?
There could be other reasons why they aren’t on the list. According to the Top Tier FAQ, to get on the list you have to submit performance testing data and other paperwork, as well as pay an annual fee. Sunoco’s website says they “significantly exceed” EPA standards for detergent additives, so maybe they just don’t want to pay or play the Top Tier game. Their website has contact info so you could probably shoot them an email and ask.
Do any of your cars actually recommend 93 octane in the manual or gas flap? Usually premium recommended or premium required cars only call for 91 octane and using anything higher is just as useless as running premium in a regular-required car.
While some additives seem to work well (Techron has been touted here), you have no idea if the mook at the station actually poured it in, or the right amount, once the tanker leaves.
One thing that affects gas quality a lot is how dry the tank is kept. Many tanks and pipes at some stations develop flaws that have nothing to do with the quality of the franchise brand. Maybe brand X across the corner is better than the name brand one. Who knows.
Based on what we see in aviation I’d believe most of the variability in quality comes down to how clean vs. polluted the individual station is. Or the distribution trucks and *their *filling station.
Which would also explain the endless internet flame wars: “Brand A is great; Brand B makes my car run rough” “No you fool, Brand A makes my car run rough and Brand B makes it purr!!” etc. The whole difference is down to which stations have clean tanks & which don’t.
I run premium in my car and about two months ago my habitual station emptied their premium and mid-grade tanks and haven’t sold any since. Now they have only regular. This in an area where premium cars are the most common kind, and premium gas is a 70-80 cent/gallon upcharge over regular.
The friendly but English-impaired immigrant at the cash register knows nothing. My bet is contamination / leaks in the tanks.
Makes we wonder how much crap I unwittingly added to my tank and FI system over the last year. I never had any overt problems and I now use the same brand from a station a couple miles down the same road.
My understanding is that the Top Tier specification grew out of a need from high-performance automobile manufacturers (BMW, Toyota, GM, among others) for higher detergent ratings than required by EPA. EPA did not see a need, so these manufacturers got with the fuel producers and agreed on requirements aimed at improving the cleanliness of the engine and exhaust, to provide higher performance and reduce maintenance.
Now, the question of whether those not on the Top Tier list are as good as those that are on the list all depends on how you determine “good”. Those on the list are held to a higher standard than those that are not. That does not mean that those that are not on the list do not meet the standard, only that they are not held (or tested) to it.
Even the EPA standard fuel has much higher detergent level than the gas sold in 1980’s. If you tried to run 1980 era gasoline in a modern fuel-injected car, you probably would start seeing clogged injectors in less than 20,000 miles, which would cause a lot of warranty claims. The EPA standards prevent that. The Top Tier standards just take this technology a bit higher.
So, which is best for your car? I have a BMW 750iL with a V12. At least every other tankful is from a top tier station (it is an independent station, but it sells top tier gas–ethanol free, too). The manual calls for 91 octane or higher, if available. If I had to choose between 89 octane Top Tier and 93 octane standard, I think the 89 octane would be the better choice.
um, no, this isn’t how it works at all. a “branded” gas station (Shell, BP, Mobil, etc.) only sells gasoline they get from their respective brands’ depot. The gas delivered by the tanker has the advertised additives already blended in. The “mook” ( :rolleyes: ) at the station doesn’t have to do a damn thing to it.
Back in January of 2005, I looked into Top Tier and discovered (at least at the time) it was a program being run by the Quik Trip service station chain. The toptiergas.com domain was registered by Quik Trip’s marketing VP.
Here is my report from 2005. Since then the registration has been updated and it now points to Savant Group, whose web site makes no mention of Top Tier. And the Top Tier site doesn’t mention Savant. Hmmm…
There are some good names (in my opinion) on the current Top Tier list, as well as some I would avoid purchasing from. There are also some good names that are not on that list (Sunoco was mentioned earlier in this thread).
Yes, all my cars require 91 octain gasoline. One, a MB AMG model, requires it as a minimum. I regularly use 93 octain because it’s widely available, generally only 10 cents more (per gallon) than 91 octain, and helps me sleep better at night.
But I’m not asking so much about octain levels but whether there was any value in following the Top Tier fuel recommended retailers. As a matter of habbit and availabilityI’ve always used named brand fuels. Texaco, Exxon, Chevron, Mobil, BP and Sunoco are widely available where I live. But recently the Sunoco station closest to me has had significantly better prices. So I’ve been filling up there instead of the Chevron station I most often used previously. Hence my curiousity.
Mine requires 91, but it’s not sold around here, and mixing 89 and 93 is too much of a hassle. That said, I have yet to notice any difference in performance or economy when I’ve used 89-octane.
My Mustang GT recommended “premium” gas in order to get advertised horsepower, but the manual didn’t state whether they considered 91 or 93 to be “premium.” 93 is what’s available in my area, so that’s what I used.
do you live anywhere near a large-ish body of water? Marinas tend to sell ethanol-free gas because there are a lot of outboard boat motors with fuel system materials which get trashed by ethanol. I live just off of lake St. Clair and can easily find no-ethanol gas.
I think the only reason 89/mid-grade exists is to extract more money from rubes who think “higher octane=better.”
Well, if you have a “premium recommended” car as opposed to a “premium required” car, you can run 89 and get less of a performance hit than you would running 87. There are also a handful of 89 octane recommended engines, mostly notably the current Hemi.
