Torchwood - Children of Earth (Spoilers!)

[Uosdwis_R.Dewoh]

[quote=“Merijeek, post:57, topic:502433”]

@Struan

And who says that’s what they were going to do? For all we know the next creepy child message from the 456 would have involved the kids holding their breath until all the ones with smaller lung capacity dropped dead. It’s just extortion.

“Give me $500 or I burn your house to the ground.”
“If you burn my house to the ground I’ll never give you $500.”

Maybe the virus was the only weapon the 456 had at their disposal. Perhaps they lacked the power to take the children by force themselves so they had to resort to threaten earth with total destruction. That’s why they needed the government to herd the children for them. They lacked the capability to transport millions of children individually.

[emarkp]

@SciFiSam

I’ve realised that the main reason this show was so good was that it was extremely effective emotionally. That was partly because it used children, and partly because it was very realistic and actually fairly low-key (the way Frobisher killed his family, for example).

See, it wasn’t effective emotionally. It cheated. It put children in danger, but we didn’t know any of the children.

If, for some reason, you’re not emotionally affected by that, then maybe you won’t think this show was that good.

You misunderstand. I was affected emotionally, because I have children (unlike Russell T. Davies). But it wasn’t drama, it was melodrama.

Maybe you won’t be impressed by the excellent acting (especially from Peter Capaldi playing Frobisher) or excellent direction (little things like the voice of the 456 and the way it repeated at Torchwood).

The acting was quite good, and the production values were good. It was the script that had problems.

However, it would be nice if those criticising the show paid a bit more attention to it. It was ‘hand over 10% of the children or we’ll kill *every single person on Earth,’ which they then demonstrated by quickly and eaily killing several hundred people in a way that we could never defend ourself against.

…which would include all of the children. The appropriate analogy is, “give us your dining room set or we’ll burn your whole house down” – wait, doesn’t that include the dining room set?

So, no, I’m not surprised nobody said ‘let’s have everyone die together rather than ten percent of one generation.’ Why would that be better?

Maybe the very important question of whether it’s better to die as a moral being than to survive as an immoral one? That England would rather die as England than live as Nazi Germany?

That the question wasn’t even raised by anyone was absurd to me.

There was hardly any time spent on the relationship subplot. Do you think it should have been cut out altogether?

No, it’s a natural part of the plot. But apparently it was more important to RTD than (say) having the actual Torchwoodies fight against the bad guys. Ya know, the name of the show, etc.

[running_piglet_cheese]

I don’t understand why you feel that’s it for Torchwood. Some alien threat occurs and when all seems lost Jack suddenly appears with some off the wall solution.

Also, no one has mentioned the fact that what Jack did with his grandson is exactly what the world leaders were proposing. Sacrifice one for the many. Sacrifice 1 million to save 1 billion. Only the numbers changed.

I felt it was well done, but the characters could have been developed a little better. Ionto’s sister and Jack’s daughter for example. Overall a good drama. Never would have been done like this in US.

[Annie]

Shoehorning in the never before seen rellies, wasn’t thrilled with that, but the story had 5 hours to accommodate such shenanigans so by the end you’d have some interest in them. Except Jack’s daughter. Personality of a wet dishrag. No wonder he never talks about her.

The government(s) being so willing to hand over the kids-a couple of thoughts. One, between the annual Christmas alien apocalypse the UK’s endured since '05, plus assorted other invasions and planet snatchings I’m guessing the Home Office is getting a little burned out. Fuckit-want a few million kids? Here’s some guttersnipes, now leave us alone. Two, it was interesting to see the drift to the Dark Side. Harriet Jones-Prime Minister would never have tolerated that bullshit for a minute.

[Telcontar]

@running_piglet_cheese

Also, no one has mentioned the fact that what Jack did with his grandson is exactly what the world leaders were proposing. Sacrifice one for the many. Sacrifice 1 million to save 1 billion. Only the numbers changed

That’s something I very much appreciated. There were two important distinctions though:
1.) When the governments gave in, they were giving the aliens a tribute. This tribute would likely be extracted again, and again, in the future. The human race was about to have a really rough century, unless i miss my guess. Jack sacrificed a child to fight the aliens. the kid was an (unwilling) casualty of war, joining the many others who had died in defense of the planet. Both psychologically and practically, this difference is crucial.

2.) Of all the children in the world, Jack sacrificed the one he was most attached to. the government instead picked those it thought it could most easily do without.

[Uosdwis_R.Dewoh]

More proof that the Doctor made a mistake by dethroning Harriet Jones. Somehow I don’t see ten percent of Britain’s children used as drugs to be part of the golden age. Children of Earth also proves Jones’ point . The Doctor won’t always be there to protect Earth.

[Eyebrows_0f_Doom]

I just came back from a marathon viewing of all 5 episodes and my thoughts are very much in line with the majority here. I thought the whole miniseries was brilliant! So dark, bleak, thrilling, suspenseful and went to places that I never expected. The Frobisher murder/suicide for example, my God! I found that scene more emotionally hard to take than Ianto’s death. (I guess because I had expected one of the Torchwood members to be offed, and I figured it would probably by Ianto.) I was very impressed by the acting, especially Barrowman. The scene of the politicians deciding how to chose the 10% was chilling because it felt so real. It was a logical, but cold & disturbing solution, one that didn’t really seem that far-fetched.
*This *is finally what Torchwood has proclaimed itself to be from the beginning. Wonderful writing, cheers to RTD!

[Quartz]

And this is where Torchwood should end. Let it go out on a high note.

[Merijeek]

@running_piglet_cheese

I don’t understand why you feel that’s it for Torchwood. Some alien threat occurs and when all seems lost Jack suddenly appears with some off the wall solution.

Because Ianto is dead, Jack is gone, and Gwen is about to become a mother. Kind of screws up everything for the moment. And all of this when we lost Tosh and Owen just before. And the Hub got blown up.

[/QUOTE]

@running_piglet_cheese

Also, no one has mentioned the fact that what Jack did with his grandson is exactly what the world leaders were proposing. Sacrifice one for the many. Sacrifice 1 million to save 1 billion. Only the numbers changed.

Totally incorrect. The World Leaders were willing to sacrifice a fraction to save the rest - as long as it wasn’t their own were kept safe. Jack sacrificed the only kid in the world that could be considered “his”.

-Joe

[Merijeek]

Holy hell did I screw up on that post. Assume everything makes sense and that the self-contradicting lines don’t.

-Joe

[Jennyrosity]

Was I the only one screaming at Frobisher, during his meeting with the PM when he told him to give up his children, to pick the red phone and beat the PM about the head with it till his brains were dribbling over the desk? Am I the only one who thought that would be a better course of action than killing himself and his family?

[Merijeek]

@Jennyrosity

Was I the only one screaming at Frobisher, during his meeting with the PM when he told him to give up his children, to pick the red phone and beat the PM about the head with it till his brains were dribbling over the desk? Am I the only one who thought that would be a better course of action than killing himself and his family?

I’m sure his crazy level of guilt had something to do with it, but I either would have gone to the press conference and sabotaged it, or just have packed the family into the car and driven until the deadline passed.

Anything but just giving up. But then again, I think it’s pretty clear he just snapped from despair.

-Joe

[Annie]

@Merijeek

I’m sure his crazy level of guilt had something to do with it, but I either would have gone to the press conference and sabotaged it, or just have packed the family into the car and driven until the deadline passed.

Anything but just giving up. But then again, I think it’s pretty clear he just snapped from despair.

-Joe

Or, he’s the quintessential Company Man who cannot conceptualize of a rebellion against the powers that be; self/family slaughter is the closest he could come to it (see:Bridget’s simul-eulogy on that score)

[Sparrow]

@Jennyrosity

Was I the only one screaming at Frobisher, during his meeting with the PM when he told him to give up his children, to pick the red phone and beat the PM about the head with it till his brains were dribbling over the desk? Am I the only one who thought that would be a better course of action than killing himself and his family?

Yes, I thought, when he asked Bridget (was that her name) to get the gun for him, he was going to go back into the PM’s office and shoot him.

[Walker_in_Eternity]

@Jennyrosity

Was I the only one screaming at Frobisher, during his meeting with the PM when he told him to give up his children, to pick the red phone and beat the PM about the head with it till his brains were dribbling over the desk? Am I the only one who thought that would be a better course of action than killing himself and his family?

No, you’re not alone, but I wanted him to stab the PM in the eye with a pen.

[Annie]

@Walker_in_Eternity

No, you’re not alone, but I wanted him to stab the PM in the eye with a pen.

Or go pick up the PM’s grand/kids for a photo op…

[chowder]

@chowder

The 456 arrived in Thames House on a pillar of fire and said that was how they were going to transport the children.

Why didn’t they just do that anyway?

As yet no-one has commented on this

[Cat_Jones]

465 arrived via one pillar of fire concentrated on a single specific point. Perhaps they don’t have the technology/energy source necessary to a) identify and localise children then b) send down thousands of different pillars of fire which are accurate enough just to pick up the target rather than anything in range…

[emarkp]

You point out more weaknesses in the writing. Why did the humans even bother making the cage for them (thus allowing them to establish a beachhead)? Why did the 456 need the humans to round up the children? Answer: It’s in the Script.

[Merijeek]

@emarkp

You point out more weaknesses in the writing. Why did the humans even bother making the cage for them (thus allowing them to establish a beachhead)? Why did the 456 need the humans to round up the children? Answer: It’s in the Script.

Because they’re alien and weren’t kind enough to send everyone their list of likes, dislikes, and pet peeves?

I’ll take aliens like this to ones with forehead bumps, TYVM.

Why has anything ever happened in any form of scripted entertainment?
Answer: It’s in the (randomly capitalized) Script.

-Joe