Toronto Attack - Police Arrest Suspect; Police Professionalism Appreciation Thread

In My Humble Opinion
21

Yes, Sammy Yatim. Shot down in 2013.

The police officer who shot him down was convicted and sentenced.

It is perhaps worth noting, considering some earlier comments in the thread, that Sammy Yatim was also not Black (he was Syrian; not sure what the perp in the current case has as a background, though I’ve read his name is Armenian).

To my mind, in this city at least, police over-reaction is not tied strictly to race. I doubt very much whether the cops could actually tell the difference between Syrians and Armenians.

Way I’d put it, the cop in the Yatim case was a bad cop, one who for whatever reason did not react appropriately (and indeed reacted criminally), while the cop in this case was the opposite - hopefully, showing a trend, though it is hard to generalize from such isolated incidents, of course.

22

I read that too, and assume it’s hyperbole because that claim doesn’t jibe with the fact that the guy graduated from college a week ago.

(And no, I’m not suggesting they have Steering 101 in their core curriculum, but, I mean— come on.)

23

The officer showed great courage and restraint under considerable provocation.

24

I know several adults, college graduated, who dont know how to drive a car.
Here’s a famous(kinda) 63yo

mc

25

I thought the same as many here - that cop did an amazing job. If this horror occurred state-side, the suspect would have been shot for sure. But, as also mentioned, the odds of anyone who just committed this crime and is carrying is pretty high in the US.

I am sure there are a lot of factors that go into a cop’s decision to pull the trigger: fear, adrenaline, etc. I think one thing that could also be a factor is the perceived worth, or value, of the suspect. I look at the Boston Marathon bomber - that guy was armed, dangerous, and desperate. However, the cops in that case also showed high professionalism under pressure, and that suspect was taken alive (IMHO because of the perceived value WRT terrorism). The cases in Boston and Toronto suggest use of deadly force is not warranted as much as it seems to be employed (at least in the US). Maybe it’s the perception of value of the citizen. I don’t know the answer - maybe better training.

26

Your perception of the Boston Marathon bombers is way off. There were two suspects. Tamerlin Tsarnaev, after killing a police officer & hijacking a car was shot multiple times by police, then run over by his brother, and died shortly afterwards. Dhzokhar escaped, but was found in a parked boat several hours later. The police shot the boat dozens of times, hitting Dhzokar in several places before surrendering. The only reason he was taken alive was because none of those shots was fatal.

27

I remember it quite differently. I remember that the police opened fire on the boat in which he was hiding. I don’t know how many rounds but multiple cops discharging their weapons at the same time. It’s dumb fucking luck for Tsarnaev that he managed to survive with just wounds.

ETA: ninja’d

28

Good.

29

I bet he graduated York University.

30

Yah, I did remember it wrong (after a little research). It was just dumb luck he survived - no one was trying not to kill him.

31

1972, your position that a police office is racist for not shooting a mass murder is absurd.

32

Senaca , I think

33

Reports worth read before opining.
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/publications/files/reports/police_encounters_with_people_in_crisis_2014.pdf
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/publications/files/reports/2013pacerreport.pdf

The officer who arrested Minassian acted professionally and in the best interests of the community and the person he arrested. A job very well done.

34

Yes, there are a number of words that one could use to describe the police during that event, but ‘restrained’ is not one I would select. Here is a video (mostly audio, really) of the police shooting at the boat.

35

Seneca College.

36

Clothahump, I know you’re a former officer. Like Malthus, I’m curious what mistakes you think the officer made? Genuinely curious to hear your viewpoint. :slight_smile:

37

Here’s an interesting article from the National Post: Why Canadian police are so good at not shooting people

38

And an article from the officer’s father, himself a former police officer in Hong Kong, who declines to call his son a hero:

Father of ‘hero cop’ praises TPS for ‘professional training’

39

I’m not a former LEO, but I have worked and lived with plenty. Accordingly, and since this isn’t GQ…

  1. The officer is lucky the killer didn’t have a bomb on him, or means to detonate one. Not that I’d think ‘suicide bomber’ in every car chase a LEO gets involved in, but I’d think the odds go up in a situation where a crazy deliberately runs a large van/truck through a crowd of people. At least it’s something that you’d start to seriously consider. And if this guy had a body-bomb, or a detonator (like a cell phone) for a bomb in that van, that cop dies. As well as the poor bastards in the money-changing/Western Union type place behind the van.

Not that the Toronto citizenry or media would be happy with the officer doing to that driver, something akin to what happened to Rigoberto Alpizar or Jean Charles de Menezes. Both of those were instances were police/air marshalls reasonably feared the decedent had a bomb, and in both cases the decedents were killed with multiple gunshot wounds. In Menezes’s case, IIRC, the officer emptied the magazine of his pistol into Menezes’s head at contact range.

  1. Leaving concealment (the police car) to confront a potentially-armed, violent assailant, is generally a bad idea. Again, the officer is lucky that the crazy wasn’t harmed with a handgun or other concealed firearm.

IMHO, I think the officer, with the recent conviction of fellow Officer Forcillo in mind, and after whatever remedial training occurred department-wide after the shooting of Sammy Yatim, hesitated in a situation where the officer would have been perfectly within his rights to use deadly force to stop an incipient lethal threat. I don’t think the officer recognized in a split second that he was being threatened by a cell phone—though maybe he saw exactly that, and realized this was someone mentally ill, seeking suicide-by-cop. I think it is more likely that the officer would have rather done anything but used lethal force against the driver, and fortunately, did not have to do so.

AIUI, in the US, to train away this impulse, LEOs in training are often shown, among other things, a video of the death of Laurens County (GA) Sheriff’s Deputy Kyle Dinkheller. In the video, Officer Dinkheller conducted a traffic stop for speeding. The driver, Andrew Brannan, became uncooperative, agitated—including asking the officer to shoot him—and ultimately retrieved a carbine from his vehicle, with which he killed Officer Dinkheller. Further, allegedly, Dinkheller had been admonished by his command, prior to this incident for unholstering his weapon too quickly in a prior traffic stop, and it’s theorized—that the fear of being reprimanded again or fired is what stayed his hand from shooting Brannan. I think it is reasonable to infer that Toronto officers are similarly hesitant to use lethal force, after the Yatim disaster.

So it goes. The officer in Toronto got lucky here, and was able to arrest the killer. Which is what we want from our law enforcement.

40

So, are we sure this cat was “crazy” or is that just your particular prejudice? Would you be just as comfortable saying, “…Again, the officer is lucky that the Armenian wasn’t …”?

Being a murderous asshole doesn’t require one to be mentally ill. As a “crazy” I am uneasy with folks making those sorts of unfounded associations.