Am currently in London, and may have the opportunity to relocate with my job to Toronto.
The move, if it happens, will be pretty quick and until I can get over there I wanted to hear the Dope on Toronto!
Anyone able to compare living in London vs Toronto?
How far/long is the average commute (to the financial district)?
Where is the ‘commuter belt’?
Any other general feedback most welcome.
Jim
Hey there. I live in a nearby city (but not quite a suburb) from Toronto.
Toronto’s financial district is Bay Street, and it’s right downtown, just a few (well, 10 maybe?) blocks from the CN Tower & Skydome. If at all possible don’t drive. Driving down there sucks. There is an excellent public transit system (subway / Tram / Buses).
There are a whole lot of suburbs all around Toronto itself (Markham, Scarborough, Malton, Missisauga, Etobicoke), then there are larger cities further outside of that (Oakville, Burlington, Hamilton to the West and as many cities to the East). The commute can be anywhere from 20 minutes to a bit over an hour on a normal day depending where you are and your method of transportation.
I live in Hamilton and communbte by car to Etobicoke. It takes me anywhere from 40 minutes to as much as 3 hours (in snowstorms and the like, but that’s the extreme of course).
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘commuter belt’, but Toronto is surrounded by higways.
There is the QEW that takes traffic East/West and runs along the South shore of Toronto.
Across the Northern top of the city, also moving East/West is the 401 (hint: stay away if you can!)
These two are connected at the West edge of the city by the 427, and connected at the East edge of the city by the Don Valley Parkway/404.
These 4 major routes make a big square around the city.
Take a look at the local traffic cameras. Pick a route from the section on the left of that page (“Traffic camera views”), then click the yellow dots on the resulting map to see a live image of the current traffic (updated every minute or so I think).
Good luck!
Hi!
TronnaDoper here.
You may be able to live close to your job no problem. Where will your job be located?
Major job centres are in the downtown core, of course, but there are also significant tech-job clusters in the first ring of suburban cities: in northern and northwestern Mississauga and in eastern Markham, for example. These suburban cities were originally pure commuter-belt places, but in recent years have acquired so many jobs due to lower taxes that there is almost much internal and sross-region commuting as commuting to downtown. Transit is dependable, if not as dense as in Toronto itself, and house proces here are comparable to those in Toronto.
(I live in Toronto and commute outwards to NW Mississauga.)
The real “commuter belt” (though we don’t really refer to it as that) is outside the first ring of suburban cities, in such places as Georgetown, Keswick, and Barrie. These cities are as much as an hours’ drive from downtown Toronto, and have more commuter residents than residents with local jobs. House prices are cheaper here, you can get more land, but you’re at the edge of the interregional transit system and local transit starts to become spotty.
Due to a building boom, there are thousands of condos on the downtown area and more on the way, and this has opened out the rental market greatly. Condos are now sprouting in the surrounding cities and regions as well, but these areas are still mostly characterised by the vast fields of tract housing.
If your new job is downtown, I would definitely recommend trying for an apartment or condo in the downtown area rather than commuting. There are quite a few vacancies in rental apartments (two in my building!), and I can get anywhere I want to on the bus and subway. The commute in on the highways is horrendous.
I live on the East side of Toronto, in Durham Region, Oshawa specifically. I commute daily to Toronto, basically the financial district. I take the GO train, which is the major commuter train system. It runs basically all over the Greater Toronto area, which extends east to Oshawa, North to Barrie, west to Oakville/Burlington. All of these places are good places to raise a family in, however if your single the best bet is to live in Toronto. As posted there is something of a boom in building going on now, getting places to live isn’t that hard in downtown, can be expensive though. My commute is an hour. No big deal, the trains are comfortable, you can sleep, read newspaper, or do work (some trainscars are equipped with outlets for laptops). This commute takes me to Union station, the centre of public transportation in Toronto. From there you can get subways/buses to take you pretty much anywhere you need to go. I walk from Union station to my work (Bay and Richmond), the major cdn banks are all HQ’d around here. It takes about 10-15 mins. And there is an underground PATH as its called so in the winter you don’t freeze. Plus there is plenty of shops on that PATH. Hope this helps.
Oh yeah 1 more thing. Dakota forget 1 highway, the 407, runs basically the sameway as 401, but its an electronic toll route(no toll booths, just cameras taking pictures of your licence plate, bill come sinthe mail). Traffic is much, much better though. And its not that expensive, particularly if you get a transponder. It goes from Oshawa to Hamilton. However its not that useful to get to Toronto, really its just to skip Toronto traffic.
The 407 goes from Burlington to Greenwood, just east of Markham. Plans exist to extend it through Whitby and Oshawa to the juction of Highways 115 and 35, northeast of Oshawa.
It is horrendously-expensive, around 13c/km. Not so bad for a single use, perhaps, but as a daily commute (say, 20 times a month, 20 km each way) it’ll add up to hundreds of dollars a month.
Commute on it only if you absolutely can’t avoid it, or are rich. [sub]Or are driving something with a European license plate. [/sub]
The 401, on the other hand, is the Evil Death Highway of Doom. Big and always clogged.
Now that we’ve managed to scare you, I should add that you’ll be welcome at our occaisional Toronto DopeFests. 
Gosh, I don’t mean to be picky, but
I would also point out that although Toronto traffic is not a lot of fun, it’s better than in most large cities. I get to drive in many big cities, and believe me, Toronto’s not bad by comparison.
The other thing is the mass transit system. Toronto’s isn’t bad and is reliable, but it is NOT what you’re used to in London; it isn’t nearly that good. London’s system has far more range and stops and has more volume (and therefore shorter waiting times.) Toronto’s transit system will seem very spare to you.
Expense: In terms of non-traffic issues, you will find Toronto much cheaper than London, by a very wide margin. Homes at a comparable distance from downtown will be half the price. (I’m adjusting for currency, of course.) Food is vastly cheaper. Gasoline is less than half the price. Everything, really, is cheaper.
**Weather: ** Toronto is both hotter (during summer) and colder (during winter) than London. Though not very cold by Canadian standards, the winters will seem terrible to you. January and February are extremely cold, with temperatures reguarly dropping below -10 C and into frostbite-danger territory. You will need better winter clothes than you probably have now. If you have little experience driving (need I also point out we drive on the right?) in winter conditions, be very careful during your first winter here. Ensure your car has a winter safety kit.
Summers here are hotter and much more humid than London. Temperatures are almost invariably five to ten degrees higher than London from June through September, and can get well above 30 C. The humidity can get very high. It’s worth it to spend a few extra bucks to get air conditioning, or else you will find summers extremely uncomfortable. Toronto had 37 smog alert days last year, which is typical; if you have asthma problems you DEFINITELY need air conditioning. Summers are typically extremely bright and sunny and UV levels get very high; you should never spend time outside in summer without applying sunscreen, or believe me, you’ll pay for it.
Toronto doesn’t get as much rain as London but you’ll find it just as windy.
Toronto is a very, very large city, but not nearly as big as London. (Beyond a certain size I doubt it matters.) You will consequently find there’s lots to do.
It would help if you could tell us precisely what your job’s new street address would be.
Actually, isn’t just about everywhere cheaper than London? When I was in London in 2000, I found that the prices of things had the same numbers as the prices of comparable things in Canada. I had to keep reminding myself that L1 = C$ 2.50.
As RickJay says, you will find many things inexpensive here.
Navigating around the city…
Toronto is primarily laid out on a grid system (with a few exceptions); this is a legacy of the British rule and colonization. You will find east/west and north/south arterial roads every 2 km or so. Buses, streetcars, and the subway mostly follow these arterial roads.
People refer to their nearest major arterial-road intersection to locate themselves in the city, then give detailed directions from there. People also refer to streets as going in east/west/north/south directions, even though (in many cases) these logical directions do not correspond to the compass. East/west is parallel to the lakeshore; north/south is at right angles to this. The lakeshore is the southern boundary. (Note: this changes outside the Greater Toronto Area.)
I was amazed when I visited London to see that there was NO GRID, and the streets met at all kinds of crazy angles and changed names on the way through intersections, and how did anyone ever find anything, especially since the routes of the Tube lines did not necessarily have any correspondance to the surface streets…
Some weather notes…
Temperatures in Toronto typically range between -20 and +30 Celsius. Extremes are -30 and +40, but these are uncommon. Outside the city and inland away from the lakes, winter temperatures are often 5 or 10 degrees lower. This is something to keep in mind if you want to go to, say, Ottawa, in January.
Summer is typically around -30 and humid, with the tropical air coming up from the Gulf of Mexico. When we get a warm day with low humidity, it’s a rare treat.
If you don’t have good winter clothing, get it. It is not an option.
Be careful when choosing boots; make sure that they have good traction on ice and snow. I have an excellent pair of Italian-made hiking boiots that have one glaring problem: their soles are slippery as hell on ice. Since we can see frozen water on the ground anytime between November and April, this cuts their utility significantly.
Watch for snow covering smooth ice. Very dangerous.
The most dangerous weather is when its below -10 and windy. You will need a hat or hood, especially if you aree waiting for a bus or streetcar.
The most miserable weather is then its around freezing and raining (most of November). Because of the dampness, it feels a lot colder than -10 and dry, anmd ity’s a lot harder to keep warm.
Sunburn? My pale Anglo body got sunburned in two hours last weekend at the TronnaDope. Beware.
Wow, Toronto’s weather has sure changed since I moved! I remember hot summers, not subzero ones.
Sunspace, I’m sure you meant +30. Let’s not frighten the OP away.
Er, yeah, Spoons, plus thirty. Yeah, that’s it.
There’s nothing to be frightened of. Honest. [sub](Don’t listen to Spoons about Toronto; he escaped, er, I mean, moved to Calgary…)[/sub]
What are the three saddest words in the English language?
“Party? What party?”
Bashere,
who moved from LA to Toronto six months ago.
welcome to the centre of the universe.
Thank you. I frequently have to explain to people that I moved from the center of the universe to the centre of the universe. No one finds it funny.
Unlike my understanding of London, it is possible to live not far from the financial district. Additionally, the important part of Bay Street (Canada’s capital; ignore those rumors about Ottawa) is on the subway line. It would help to know if you are move of a condo dwell, a house-in-the-city-dwell, or a suburbanite. A condo dweller could be at work in 15 minutes and never drive, an house-in-the-city type could be there in half an hour in either car, transit, or some combination; I have no idea how long it takes to get from Mississauga, although Toronto is installing signs calculating the time currently required to travel the freeway from 'sauga to downtown, and cities don’t do that to tell you it will take five minutes.
While Toronto is a populous place, it doesn’t have the urban sprawl I would associate with a big city; it is possible, especially if you work odd hours, to make it well out of town in half an hour. RickJay is sort of correct about the traffic. Traffic here is actually about as bad as most of the big cities I’ve been in, in a mph sort of way (actually, it is worse than some), but the drivers bear the glacial pace with aplomb and good cheer. Bloody strange to me.
I moved from a place where it sometimes gets down to 40 degrees F, and my total investment in winter clothes consisted of 3 pairs of long johns and a wool trench coat from a military surplus store ($20 in Kensignton Market). Yes, the winters are nippy, but not as bad as, say, Sudbury faces each year. The summers are warm, but more to the point, humid.
Is anyone else waiting for the OP to come back and say he’s moving to Toronto from London, Ontario?
Bashere, so sorry you missed our TronnaDope. I guess this means we’ll have to have another one.
What… you mean London, Ontario isn’t the big one?
Then who the hell was that tour guide?
Thanks everyone for the Dope on Toronto, sounds fantastic, lots to take in but the most impressive thing is the willingness for you guys to welcome someone to your city!
I may have some more questions as soon as I find out a little more about the transfer myself.
My GF has family in Vancouver and I enjoyed travelling around BC, however Toronto sounds awesome too.
Thnaks again!
Could you please tell me more about these TorontoDopeFests? What are they? Thanks.
TronnaDope: A bunch of us got together last weekend at Hanlan’s Point for a picnic. We also met later for dinner. Here’s the planning thread.
There’s going to be a gathering in Montreal next month too.
Anyone can do it. We’re just lucky we have some incredibly-organised and generous Dopers in the area.