Total War: Rome...its shipped. Thoughts?

Well, went out and bought the Prima guide. Not sure how much help it will be for me, as it doesn’t really answer the questions I have, but thought I’d relate some of the unit types for the Romans and my thoughts on them on the off chance some folks who haven’t bought the game yet are still interested in the thread. I’ll start off with just the special units and the infantry types and see if there is any interest before I bother putting in cavalry, missile, ships and artillary.

All of the following is attributed to the Total War Prima guide (www.primagames.com), by Bryan Stratton. Hopefully no copy right problems…I’m not reproducing it here in its entirety. :slight_smile:

Incendiary Pig: One shot weapon used to inspire terror and panic…supposedly useful against elephants. No idea…haven’t used them at all.

War Dogs: Used against cavalry to inspire terror…again, haven’t used them.

Auxilia: Disiplined spearmen, provides support to leginaries in battle. Decent early unit…can’t stand up in the main battle line, but good for flanking. (41 soldiers, attack 5, shield 5, hitpoints 1, charge bonus 5, weapon type light, total defense 16).

Hastati: Heavily armored pre-legion troops. Again, decent early unit. (40 soldiers, attack 7, defense 4, missile attack 11, shield 5, charge bonus 2, hitpoints 1, weapon type heavy, total defense 14).

Peasants: These units suck just like in the other games…never use these troops unless you are truely desparate…and even then, don’t use them. :slight_smile:

Town Watch: One step up from peasants…only use for garrison troops in towns that are unlikely to be attacked…ever.

Arcani: Small elite stealth troops suited for ambushes. I never used these, so don’t know how they work in battle. (16 soldiers, attack 12, shield 2, charge bonus 4, hitpoints 2, weapon type light, total defense 15).

Early Legionary Cohort: Armored infantry equiped with a heavy javelin for throwing and a short sword and shield. First really kick ass unit you get. (41 soldiers, attack 9, defense 5, missile attack 13, shield 5, charge bonus 4, hitpoints 1, total defense 17).

Early Legionary First Cohort: Same model as above, but better skills. (62 soldiers, attack 9, defense 5, missile 13, shield 5, charge 4, hp 1, total defense 17).

Legionary Cohort: More defense. (41 soldiers, attack 9, defense 5, missile attack 13, shield 5, charge 4, hp 1, weapon heavy, total defense 22).

Legionary First Cohort: Solid troops…backbone of your army. (62 soldiers, attack 9, defense 5, missile 13, shield 5, charge 4, hp 1, weapon heavy, total defense 22). These troops get the special ‘testudo’ or turtle formation that makes them semi-immune to missile attacks when they are in the formation. They also give bonus’s to near by troops because of the regiments Eagle standard.

Praetorian Cohort: Elite and expensive. (41 soldiers, attack 12, defense 6, missile 16, shield 5, charge 4, hp 1, weapon heavy, total defense 23). These troops get the special ‘testudo’ or turtle formation that makes them semi-immune to missile attacks when they are in the formation.

Principes: Good early second line unit. (41 Soldiers, attack 7, defense 4, missile 11, shield 5, charge 2, hp 1, weapon heavy, total defense 16).

Samnite Gladiators: Good shock troops. (20 soldiers, attack 14, shield 0, charge 4, hp 2, weapon light, total defense 14).

Urban Cohort: Top of the line…the Swiss Armored Pikemen of TW:R. (42 soldiers, attack 14, defense 7, missile 18, shield 5, charge 4, hp 1, weapon heavy, total defense 24). These troops get the special ‘testudo’ or turtle formation that makes them semi-immune to missile attacks when they are in the formation.

Ok, thats it for the ‘melee’ troops, though as you can see most of these troops also get a missile attack before they charge.

-XT

That would be me keep it up.

I noticed you ragged on peasants but I always created a few to ‘garrison’ my newly conqured towns to keep the population under control (they’re cheap to upkeep and are worthless in battle so I think that’s the perfect niche for them) I also used spys lower the chance of rebellion. Could this be why you’re having so much trouble keeping rebellions down?

No worries…I’ll do another installment tomorrow time permitting. :slight_smile:

Hm…well, I never thought of that. I usually just use the damaged troops from the initial assault to garrison the city (you can automatically repair damaged troops now btw if the city has the ability to produce the damaged troops…its really cool) until I make Town Watch troops (I used sergeants and such in TW:ME for the same duty). I’ve always found peasants to be worthless if the province/city were ever attacked, so I generally avoided using them.

I doubt this is why my towns keep rebelling…my cities are mostly garrisoned pretty heavily. HOwever, this might be why I am having such problems with money. I might want to think about garrisoning some of my deep interrior cities with peasants instead of Town Watch troops and seeing if that brings my expenses down. Thanks for the advice!!

-XT

Ugh. I’ve started a new job in a game store and barely scratched the surface of this game, but here’s a few pointers:

  • Peasants are a lot tougher (relatively to MTW) and won’t shrek and run at the first sign of trouble. Still suck though.

  • You get to unlock another 6 (?)factions after beating it once. Did on easy mode with Julii and snotted the Gauls.

  • Wardogs are great shock troops. If you can blindside infantry, you can rout then maul them as they flee.

  • Flaming pigs have a nasty habit of running into your own lines.

  • The light calvery charge into battle - then get slaughtered. They’re hand to hand fighting has been toned down, so you need to micro them better.

I’m trying the Germanic barbarians at the moment. It’s tough with the Brits, Gauls and the tribe to your East consantly warring you. The Shreiking Women are a hoot; massive offense with almost zero defense.

Very cool Rabid_Squirrel…exactly what I’m looking for in this thread. I have a feeling I’ll be playing this game for years to come, so I’m in no hurry to unlock the other factions. Just out of curiosity, what factions are playable to you now?

I’ll take the advice about the peasants…it will save me quite a bit of gold if I garrison with them instead of more costly troops…even Town Watch are 50 gold more than peasants. I’m thinking a mix of peasants with a few archers just in case of attack.

-XT

I’m not a fan of real-time strategy games (Civ and EU2 are more my style), but I really liked the old DOS game Centurion. Anyone remember that one? If TW: Rome is similar to that oldie, I may consider getting it.

Please keep up the descriptions for those of us who don’t have the game. I trust opinions here better than those on gaming sites.

The TW games, including Rome, aren’t real time strategy games. They are a combination of a turned based strategy game you play on the world map (if you are playing in campaign mode) and real time tactical battles. On the turned based world map you manage your province(s)/cities, move your fleets and armies, build buildings that enhance your technology, your food production, money, happyness of your people, etc. You can build diplomats to go forth and make treaties, demand tribute, increase trade, etc. You can make spys to spy out enemy cities or assassinate enemy generals. You can also move your armies to engage the enemy, or the enemy might move HIS armies to engage you…which triggers the real time tactical battle side.

On the tactical side I haven’t found a better, more realistic or visually stunning game. You manipulate your regiments of troops on a huge battle map. You don’t move individual troops, but coordinated regiments, where you can change formation, unit spacing, attack vectors, etc. Its kind of hard to describe if you’ve never played the other 2 games as I can’t think of a game that is like it to compare it too on the tactical side. I guess the nearest analogy would be one of those table top battle games where you get the little minuture armies filled with regiments of soldiers and you move them with a ruler and roll dice…except of course that this is real time and ruler is used or dice rolled. But the same kind of visual impact.

Hope this is a good explaination…maybe someone else will take a shot at describing the game better. You can check it out for yourself on the web at http://www.totalwar.com/...and they also have links to the two older games, which if you haven’t played I would highly recommend…especially TW: Medieval.

-XT

Bad link. Should have been this

I’ll try and do the cavalry troops tonight for the Romans…hope this info is helpful to some of you.

-XT

Funny that Cavalry should be “stronger”… I thought the Romans weren’t much into cavalry :slight_smile:

I won’t do to well in this game I guess… funny you(Xtisme) saying you went heavily infantry… I’m the opposite. I tended to go heavily in cavalry in Medieval… using a good commerce dominance to finance all that expensive maintenance.

I think they changed the charge capability…making it more powerful. Basically I don’t think there WAS a charge bonus in TW:ME, though the regiments certainly would charge…when they wanted too. You couldn’t force them to charge as far as I could tell.

Cavalry actually is weaker in some respects now in TW:R, but more powerful in others. Basically if your cavalry gets caught in a fixed point melee, then they are screwed…they will die like dogs. However, if you are on the ball you can charge them out of danger, which is really nice. So, they are less powerful when they are stopped and in melee combat than in TW:ME. However, when you get the charge in, they are devastating, at least initially…definitely decisive.

I’ve always been more of a defensive player in these kinds of games. I never used cavalry much in TW:ME because it doesn’t play into my play style. I like to have a wall of infantry backed by archers/crossbowmen, and use cavalry to flank or in the pursuit phase of the battle after I break the enemy formations and send them running…or to plug a critical gap with a timely charge.

I think I’m finally starting to get the hang of TW:R…I started a new campaign with another Roman faction and I’m doing a lot better this time. All my cities are green or yellow faces (they are basically happy), and most of them have positive incomes. I’m able to put into the field at least two armies while still defending my cities well…and still bringing in income. I found out that taking provinces with Wonders of the Ancient World gives you pretty big bonus’s, so I’m targetting them…as well as provinces with scarce resources.

Go get it RM and let me know what you think. :slight_smile:

-XT

What are the names of the factions ? Any differences ?

I can’t play for now… got some exams coming beggining of October… after that I will definetly try to play it !

There are a bunch of different factions you face off against. Off the top of my head: Gaul, The Greek Cities, Macedon, Carthage, Spain, Thrace, Numidia, Dacia, Parthia, Pontus, Germannia, Britannia and the usual Rebels. I might’ve missed a few. Yes there are differences, but I’m rushed for time to describe them.

Right now, as the Julii faction, I’ve conquered Gaul but keep getting locked in a two front war with Britannia and Germannia. Also Thrace declared war on me, but they’re more of a threat to the Brutii. I grabbed the Pelopennesos of Greece so I could claim the Statue of Zeus wonder, but Corinth, Sparta and Athens are constant hotbeds.

The only factions I can think of you missed is the is the Seleucid…sort of a combination of Roman and Greek as far as units goes (its a playable faction btw), and the Scythian’s (non-playable).

I think I’ll try the Seleucid first when I unlock…or maybe the Greeks. Cool units in both of them.

I started off with the Brutii, and am basically working on Greece and the Middle East. I want to move into Egypt next and then along the coast of North Africa to take out Carthage.

-XT

Okay, a few comments.

First, in Medieval there certainly was a charge bonus, and cavalry certainly did charge. Just aim some knights at some peasants and watch the peasant unit as the knights arrive. The peasants will take a large number of initial casualties, and then they will continue to die at a much lower rate. Actually, this effect is even more pronounced with mounted sargeants, since their charge is just a good as knights, but their melee stats are substantially worse. Just had to share that.

I’ve been playing the prologue campaign in Rome and I must say I’m finding it strategically much more tougher than Medieval. I’m finding myself broke all the time, and that as cities grow they actually become an economic drain instead of an asset. Obviously I need to rethink my building strategy. But who ever said that governing an empire should be easy? I’m liking this.

Incidentally, does anyone else find the campaign map reminiscent of Conquest of the New World?

Well I got it the other day. So I have a few questions/Thoughts

Is it worth playing through the tutorial? You can’t save on it and I keep getting distracted so I’ve had to restart it a few times. Finally I just gave up and went to the campaign.

Population: Wow talk about having to rewire your circuits it adds a new level having to wait for your city to grow large enough to be able to expand. That being said I think the lower settlement stages last way way too long. It’s terrible having 900 people growing at 3% waiting for them to reach 2000.

Taxes: So far I keep them low to keep my population growing then increase them as I get my cities past a certain point. It’s not too bad having to manage the taxes so far but it will get very annoying after I get about 10+ providences I imagine.

Money: So far I’m swimming in it. I have only one real army though and a few bits and pieces in my interior in case someone sneaks over the mountains. The map on this game is interesting I don’t feel as compelled to defend my border states as much because you see an attack coming and have a turn or two to get your defenses in place. That said I kinda miss the old map I liked the ‘board game’ feeling it had.

Loyalty: once again all I have is a small nation but I’m really not having a problem keeping people in line. At worst I have to drop taxes once and awhile but one peasant/one governor seems to be keeping the peace pretty easily.

AI: ok the AI is dumb as dirt. Really. For a senate goal I had to attack a city that was a couple of steps from my empire. I took it. Now it gets attacked all the time from the Gauls. Only problem is they attack my city with FEWER men then what I have garrisoning. I go out to break the siege then wait a turn for them to attack me again while I retrain. They were so concerned with getting that city back that I went out and took 3 more cities of theirs that they weren’t defending because they kept throwing tiny armies at that single city. (I’m in medium difficulty BTW)

AI/Pathfinding: This sends me into hysteria already there’s been a few battles where I get a few units over a bridge or through a gate or in the middle of a city with narrow streets. I order them to a location and they promptly turn around and go back over the bridge/gate/street! Usually getting promptly attacked from the rear! It seems to happen more often when I’m moving units as a group so I’m learning to pick units out and move them singly when I’m in tight quarters but it’s really silly. How does “Advance to the middle of the city” equal “turn around so you can block the only entrance and can get attacked from behind” even if you’re in a large group? At best they should hold position until everyone else gets there.

Senate Missions: How many of these are you supposed to succeed? I find I only do about half of them because most of the ones I get are insane. I try to do them if at all possible but I’m not pulling my forces out of gaul when I’m being attacked on every side so I can take some greek island.

Spies: erm I don’t see the loyalty bonus I used to see in the other Total War games. I re-read the manual and it certainly SOUNDS like you should get a loyalty bonus for them being in cities. I’ll have to check more to see what’s going on.

Ok enough random thoughts for now I have to go to work.

That’s why you have to conquer. As your armies get larger to protect yourself your cities begin to bare more of cost, especially the larger ones. And as the cities get larger under peace the less productive they get after a certain period. And the larger they are the more chaotic they become. So you build larger armies to keep order until you are running a huge debt. They only way out is to conquer a new young and fertile territory to help spread out the cost of having such a huge army. So you conquer and start making lots of money. But you just gained a new enemy and so you have to use your money to build a larger army to protect yourself. And your cities again begin to become unprofitable so you …

As soon as a realized this viscous cycle I realized how cool this game really is. Its just like the real Rome and your forced to repeat history.

It’s about exactly that game, but more complex. I’ve been considering getting TW:R because of that game oh so long ago. I doubt it will have the chariot races, which were great for cash, or doing the nasty with pixelated Cleopatra. However, the same kind of tactical battles and strategic conquering is about the same looking.

I’m having some trouble with money as well, especially since it seems much harder to keep your populations happy. I’m finding that I have to keep my taxes lower and have either monthly or even daily games or races to keep them in the yellow/green zone…which costs a lot of money. As my empire gets bigger I actually seem to have less money available than when my empire was small. It TW:ME I always had a hell of a lot more money than I needed…even during the Black Death times I was always in the positive income.

I never really noticed a ‘charge bonus’ in TW:ME, but then I didn’t really use a lot of cavalry. I did notice that cavalry could charge, but they mostly did it on their own. In this game you can make either cavalry or infantry formally charge by double clicking…and its pretty noticable when they do (especially cavalry/elephants) as men go flying from the path of the charge. Also, its more noticable for me as far as the initial casualties go.

Yes, I didn’t think of that by now that you brought it up it DOES look a lot like CotNW as far as the strategic map goes. Haven’t played that game in a LONG time. :slight_smile:

Thats what I did. Once you get the hang of the new controls just drop the tutorial and go on to the full campaign.

What I’ve been doing in that situation is basically garrisoning such cities with Town Watch and a few archers (after you build all the buildings you can) and then removing the Govenor and forming a new field army to go forth and take a new city/province. Then after the govenor leaves just put the city on “Growth” for its economic plan and come back to it when it improves to the next level…which you can see by mousing over it on the strategic map.

Again, what I do when I get so many cities/provences, or after I’ve built all the things I need in a city is simply automate it by putting it on one of the economic plans available (balanced, military, growth, cultural, etc). They will adjust the taxes on that city accordingly so you don’t have to micromanage them. You just have to watch them from time to time on some of those economic plans, as they will start cranking out units in some cases for no reason I can figure out.

When I played the Brutii I got to nearly 30k…but as I started to expand most of that evaporated. I now control all of Greece, most of what is today Turkey/Iran/Iraq, etc, and am pushing into Egypt…and I’m almost always broke. I kind of miss the old maps too and that board game feel…but I like the new strategic possibilities of the new one. I like that I can see the enemy coming and send out a field army to attack it, or even defend in the field by building watch towers or forts on my boarders and garrisoning them. It takes away the all or nothing aspects of attack and defense from the old games.

This too shall pass. :slight_smile:

Well, I’d have to disagree. I’ve found the AI to be pretty smart so far, though more on the tactical side than on the strategic. The reason they are attacking you with smaller forces is a quirk in the game. Basically you can now siege cities, and win by default if you starve the city out. So, I think sometimes the computer attempts to do this as a bluff, or if you are in a city that is strategic to them and they really need it…but only have smaller armies to throw at it.

I’ve also seen where the enemy is so intent on taking a city that they leave their own defenses of other cities small…but that happened in real life too. :slight_smile: And I’ve seen where I’ve attempted to do what you are describing and they trapped my field army by bringing up (from out of the fogged areas I couldn’t see) several powerful forces to wipe me out.

Yes, I’ve had this happen. Unfortunately this has been the one real disappointment. I’ve actually had cities go rebel on me because my army pathed the long way around to get to some enemy unit in my province, leaving me no way to put the army back in the city after the fight…and making a green city go to red. I’ve also had some strange pathing problems on the tactical map, especially in city fights. I’ve had units that either refused to move when I told them to go, or took strange paths to get there…totally screwing up my fine tactics and making a hash of my battles. I also wish they had of kept the slider bar for time instead of the present system where you can only have pause, normal time, double time and triple time. I liked being able to set time to any percentage I wanted depending on what was happening, so I could observe the units and make sure they were doing what I wanted them too.

Gods know. I do the ones that are easy and blow off the others. A lot of times they seem to give me ones that are simply impossible for me to do like take my fleet of 6 ships into the teeth of the Egyptian navy (numbers 2 stacks of 10) and blockade a port, or take out a city half way across the world…in 5 turns. I usually just evaluate them by clicking on the magnifying glass and if it looks easy I do it…and if not, I don’t. I have only once had the Senate mad enough at me to take money from me…and that was after blowing off several missions in a row. I think eventually you will be attacking Rome itself so you only need to do enough missions to keep the Senate off your back.

Have to bolt for work myself. Keep the thoughts coming guys!

-XT

I’ve looked at the demo briefly. Did the same for M:TW, but at the time my graphics card wasn’t up to the load. I really wish the demo had a taste of the turn-based play, rather than focusing entirely on the tactical battle.

I may have to put this on my list of things to get. Would it be better for me to pick up M:TW with the Vikings expansion to get a taste of things, or just go straight to Rome?

I’d get TW:ME Teine. It has less graphics requirements (and memory, and processor, etc) and its a lot cheaper. And basically if you like it, you’ll most likely enjoy TW:R also, as the games are similar, and can justify better the greater expense in graphics cards, processor, hard drive space, memory, etc…and of course the greater expense in the game itself. I’ve seen the TW:ME/Viking expansion combo in stores for under $20…definitely worth the price IMO.

If you get TW:ME, feel free to post your thoughts on it here in this thread, or ask any questions you might have about the game here…I’d be more than happy to take a shot at answering them.

-XT