Anyone play Medieval Total War?

Cafe Society
1

What I’d like to do are some tips by anyone who plays this war game. Its one of my all time favorite combinations real time stategy/turn based games.

Some of the topics I’d like to get dopers to comment on (besides the game in general if you like) are:

  1. How do you improve loyalty on the harder levels? I’ve had a bitch of a time playing above Hard on some of the more difficult countries (like Turkey for instance), especially in the early going. My damn troops keep coming out as 1 loyalty and have a tendency to rebel. Anyone have any good tips on preventing this?

  2. Money: Whats your strategy on making money in the game? How do you focus on this aspect which is pretty critical for later.

  3. Whats your over all strategy based on the various time frames you can start or the different countries? Feel free to focus on any time frame or country if you like.

  4. Whats your favorite nation to play? Whats your least favorite?

  5. What technologies do you like to research and in what order? Whats your over all strategy as far as technology goes?

  6. Whats your over all strategy for winning period? Do you hunker down and research, do you wage agressive war, do you go for a sea empire? How do you win for the various nations? Which nations do you find easiest to win with? Which do you find most difficult?

7 Do you have the Viking Invasion expansion? Do you like it better than the base game? Have you actually tried to play through the Viking period? Which pre-nations do you like?

Anything else related to the game would be great as well. Personally I’ve found this to be THE strategic/tactical computer game of all time. I simply love the thing. I’ve been playing it since it came out and bought the expansion when it shipped. I’ve played nearly every nation multiple times, though I admit I haven’t been able to win with my own strategy on the harder nations for some. I want to keep the OP short, in case there isn’t any interest in this subject (I’m still feeling my way in Cafe Society, as I usually hang out in GD).

Also, anyone have any thoughts on Total War: Rome? I can’t wait for this to ship, but I’m really disappointed it got knocked back until the end of this year. Originally it was supposed to ship at Christmas just past, but they must have run into some technical snags or something.

Reguards,
XT

2

Lots of questions, there…:slight_smile: Personally, I like playing the Muslim countries, especially the Egyptians, partly because I like those units. The Ghazi infantry and Ghulam cavalry are a match for any of the Christian knights, the camels are just cool, and by striking north you can either invade the Byzantines, who are over-extended enough that you can take a few provinces easily, or go through Armenia into the Russian steppe, which is mostly neutral and, Golden Horde excepted, doesn’t provide much resistance (and I like the battle music). I don’t really like playing the French, just because they’re so crowded. You’re surrounded by the English, Spanish, and Germans, so you have to defend three frontiers, which tends to spread you out (and as a Catholic nation, you have to worry about being excommunicated for fighting other Catholics).

For loyalty, all you can do is keep taxes low, and make sure that your religion is the majority one in the region (this also makes a good reverse tactic. If you’re next to a country with another religion, try to convert the neighboring province to your religion. That will help decrease its loyalty and might spark a revolt, and then when you take it, you’ll have loyal coreligionists). Recruit your troops from high loyalty areas, and if an area has a loyalty below 100% keep a garrison there.

As for money, lowering taxes, while it helps your loyalty, hurts your income. Build agricultural improvements as soon as you can, trade, especially if you’re a naval nation, and most of all, resolve yourself to the fact, that, especially early in the game, you’re not going to be able to buy everything you want. Not every province will have every building. But make sure you build watch towers and border forts on your borders. Not only will they let you see the army that’s massing to destroy you, they make it somewhat harder for assassins to come in and start killing your special units. I’ve noticed that assassins tend to target your religious figures, and it gets annoying building them just to have them killed the next turn. Also, for both loyalty and economics, enoble competant generals. If an area is ruled by someone with high acumen or the skills “trader” or “good steward”, that’ll reflect positively on income.

I found the Viking expansion to be sort of a disappointment. The new nations are nice, though, and I do like “going Viking”…it’s nice to hop back and forth by sea from province to province pilliaging. I’ve never played much of a naval game, though. I might enjoy the expansion more if I did.

3

Really wish they’d put in a tactical sea battle part of the game, to go with the tactical battles. I think that would make this game really exceptional…instead of just being the best war game of its type I’ve played. :slight_smile: I really hate when I lose a sea battle when the odds are even. I would like to take command myself and see if I fare better than the computer.

Captain Amazing:

Myself, I like playing the Italians. I’ve found them both challenging and fairly easy to win on the hard levels in the earlier time period. I don’t really like the French either for the same reason. The German are also fun. For the muslims, to be honest they are too easy, except the Turkish. This is probably my all time favorite country to play, but its pretty hard to win in the early time on the hard level. But they have the richest array of units IMO. The Hungarians are also fun to play and reasonable challenging, same with the English. I’ve never been able to figure the Danes out on the hard level…I must just not be properly oriented to win with my own tactics and strategy. I also have trouble with the Russians, mostly because you have to start in the 1200’s with them, and the damn Mongols are like 20 years from invasion.

Money: Well, my own strategy is to build up agriculture just like you say. Also build up the trading posts. I usually build castles in all the provences that have trading posts all the way up. As well as all provinces that have iron mines (for weapon smiths). Its pretty critical IMO to build a huge navy reguardless of who you are playing as. I try and have several reserve fleets, but a ship at least in all the sea zones, especially those with ports. I also find that putting taxes and assign titles on auto helps a lot with money. The computer does a better job than me at assigning titles to guys with Acumen I think.

I was also a bit disapointed in Viking Invasion. I liked being able to specify reinforcements, though it took me some time to figure out how to make it work right. The biggest disappointment though was that you couldn’t push technologies and race through really advanced weapons now. One of my old strategies was to push the development of the town guard path in the European countries. You could basically push through to get Swiss Armored Pikemen by the 1200’s before…and by far this is the best infantry unit in the game, bar none. Its even better than the Janissary Heavy Infantry of the muslim countries. But they made it so you couldn’t push through technologies like that anymore (crossbows too were something I really developed before).

-XT

4

Maybe someone could take a shot at this too. How the hell do you keep the pope happy?? It seems that reguardless of what I do on the harder levels, a always end up excommunicated and basically fighting all the christian powers. Basically the general trend is, someone trecherizes me and attacks, and I attack back. The pope then uniformly excommunicates ME, even though I’m the one getting attacked. I’ve tried doing crusades, forming an alliance with the pope, etc…and none of that works. My strategy now is simply to attack and kill the pope off, since all excommunications go when he does, but this seems a pretty heavy handed strategy. Anyone have a better way to keep the pope on your side while still being able to defend yourself?

-XT

5

This is one of my favorite games ever. A real improvement on the magnificent Shogun: Total War.

I like playing Spain and Britain, mostly because their isolation goes well with my turtling tendencies; and their units are also good for my strategies on the field, Jinete javelins are pretty good versus armored units if you manage them properly and Longbowmen, especially Welsh Longbowmen, have the longest non-gun powder range in the game es well as having decent melee.

I deal with the Pope by ruling like a nazi when English or attacking the Almohads when Spanish, which I think actually helps you out with the Pope. Another good way is just wait until your neighbor inevitably gets the papal boot or ( I haven’t tried this) get an Inquisitor or Grand Inquisitor to deal with foreign catholic leaders. I think one of the succesfull consequences is excommunication.

Economy is my bane, especially when playing Spain since North Africa is barren. What I usually do is grant noble titles to generals with high acumen, the steward and builder qualities happen after you grant the titles since they are consequence of building farms and buildings in their provinces. I only tax heavily my original provinces. You can also get a pretty penny by ransoming back prisoners, but it will also mean you are gonna have to fight those 500 guys in a couple of turns.

And I agree with xstime. The naval aspect is just too cumbersome. 3 turns for a caravel? I gotta get to Palestine by 1250!

6

Cumbersome, yes. Very. But the naval component is oh, so important. It is the key to economic success. Consistently build up a navy from very early on, steadily expand your sealanes and build up your trading provinces. Particularly gems like Constantinople, Sweden ( if I’m remembering correctly, haven’t played in a little while ) or some of the Levantine provinces - your trade income will very quickly dwarf all other sources. When playing little Denmark in particular, trade is must.

  • Tamerlane
7

Definitely have to build up sea power no matter what you play. I even build up a huge navy when I play Turkey (after I capture the costal provences near your start position). Not only for the trade (which is vital for the money) but to allow you the strategic flexablilty to pretty much attack the enemies rear areas…and also cover your own from similar attack. Otherwise you have to make sure your coastal provences are well stocked with troops which cuts into your total reserves.

What I was saying and what I would love to see in future TW games is the same tactical level combat that we get for the ground battles translated into the sea forces. Ship to ship or fleet to fleet actions I think would catapult this game into the stratosphere IMO. I’m thinking of maybe a stripped down version of Pirates of the Caribbean tactical ship combat interface (an otherwise ho hum game, but with nice and easy tactical ship fighting interface) with smaller ships but the same basic combat model.

Another thing I hope they are working on or looking at is something like Total War: Renaissance, that takes Europe from say mid 1400’s through the 18th century. Imagine getting to use this engine and map but with Napoliaonic tactics and weapons. I’m really looking forward to Total War: Rome, but I think a Napolianic era TW game would just be great…especially if they also put in the tactical ship combat mode too.

-XT

8

Last night I wrote a long exhastive post which the board merrily ate. So I’m going to give a much much shorter version.

It’s called Total War for a reason. If you have enough men to attack successfully do so. Have every country have basic unit production so you can raise an army in seconds. After you have basic unit production down switch to economic improvments. Unless the country is hopeless (Like Arabia) or is already well developed have those countries upgrade to the higher more powerful units. Typically my econ is only problems until I have about 8 countries under my belt.

Always have a few countries producing ships. This is so vital for three reasons. 1. Army movement. 2. Trade alot of cash. 3. Keeping your empire connected to your king so they don’t rebel (anyone else get bored and drop you king on an island with a destroyed port to watch 75% of your empire go up in flames?)

I always have the game beat (on hard starting from the early period the way I usually play) before gunpowder or the mongols show up. Sometimes I get it done before the compass shows up.

Typically I play as Germany/Byzintine/Egypt if I want to have an easy time. Hardest country is probably Denmark. I’ve never managed to win with Denmark on Expert.

9

Oh and this may sound stupid but if you have a choice always attack the best country the enemy has.

That way you take away their best unit producing country most likely they’ll have a large amount of the army to retreat to the castle to starve and if you attacked the weaker ones first you streach yourself out while they can crank out more powerful units.

10

Great thread. I just got the game and I have enjoyed playing the Egyptians and the Allmhoudians (sp). That said, I am a little confused with how trading works. Do you trade only with yourself? How do the shipping lanes work? Colour me stupid but I am sort of lost on this point! Also, do you just move troops onto boats to move them via your navy? Sorry for the simple questions but I am just slowly getting into this wonderful game. Any help would be most appreciated! Thanks.

11

Almohades ( a westernization of al-Muwahiddun ). The Egyptians with control of the rich Levant can quickly become an economic powerhouse and Almohade Urban Militia is one of the best early units available.

If I’m remembering correctly ( and someone will doubtless corrct me if I am not :wink: ), trade proceeds over sea lanes and only with non-hostile, non-owned provinces. In order to trade you must have a continuous line of ships ( any kind ) linking the provinces that are trading ( i.e. at least one in every sea lane ). Only provinces with trade goods ( listed at the top of the province description ) produce significant trade income and these require some sort of trading facility ( trading post or better ). The more advanced the trading facility, the larger the income. The more trade goods produced by the province, the larger the income. The more provinces connected to trade with, the larger the income. Trading with provinces that don’t produce the same trade goods as your province, also ( I think ) increases income.

There may be more minutia I’m forgetting, but that is the basics.

It’s automatic ( and perhaps the most unrealistic part of the game ). As with trading, a continuous lines of ships between two provinces allows instantaneous and complete troop transfers between those provinces, if you have a port in the province from which you wish to embark troops ( you do not require one in the disembarking port, but if there is no port or if it is destroyed in the course of invading, your troops will be stranded until one is built or re-built ). As noted, moving a king with merits necessary to maintain cohesion in the state to a non-linked province ( no port for communications and no land link ), can cause civil unrest.

Nothing wrong with simple questions :). Just hope I gave simple ( and correct ) answers.

  • Tamerlane
12

Just in case that is unclear - if you have two or more provinces linked by ships ( rmember, it must be a continuous link ), you can pick up any combination of stacks from linked provinces with ports and deposit them in any linked province, regardless if it has a port or not.

  • Tamerlane
13

Thats my understanding of how it works as well, Tamerlane…basically you have to have ships in each sea lane between the two provinces you want to establish trade with. I solve this by basically putting one or more shis in ALL the sea lanes, with several strategically located ‘fleets’ in case someone gets itchy to stab me in the back.

Two of the three muslim powers, the Almohads and the Egyptians are some of the easiest and most powerful nations in the game IMO…the third muslim power, the Turks are one of the most difficult but also the most rewarding to play. The Turks simply have the best selection of units IMO. They have literally 5 DIFFERENT and powerful types of skirmisher/archers (who actually melee pretty well), some nice mid game infantry units, and a whole bunch of horse units…plus they get the Janissary units (Heavy infantry and heavy skirmishers). The Janissary Heavy infantry is basically equivelent (though a bit more expensive) to Swiss Armored Pikes, which is by far the best infantry unit in the game. Once you have these guys, and especially if you also have the armor maxed and a weapons smithy, they can basically crush anything out there. Unlike Darkhold, at Hard or Expert level it usually takes me until mid 1200’s (at least) before I have the map pretty well under controll (and thats not a win…just until I’m pretty much the dominant nation)…and I usually allow the game to go well into the 1300’s just so I can get all the cool units and play with them (I almost always play for total victory instead of the 60% of the world lesser victory). :slight_smile: I’m more a cautious player myself, really developing my trade, sea power, agriculture, technologies, and going for the strategic targets as far as provences go.

My list of provences that are ‘must have’ IMO, for anyone interested are:

Venice, Tuscany, Genoa, Switzerland (MUST have for any european country, and get it early if you can so you can buidl it up), Castile, Aragon, Leon (Navarre is nice too), Cordoba, Morocco, Sicily, Egypt, Palestine, Tripoli, Antioch, Constantinople, Khazar, Kiev, Hungary and Poland. All are top priority targets IMO for various reasons. Other countries I use more for position and defense…or offense, though I really like using my fleet to be able to attack off axis where the enemy is weak, simply holding on the fronteer with a really powerful defensive force.

I agree Tamerlane that the weakest part of the game is the sea movement part…its just too automatic. I suppose you could make a case that, as each turn is a year, that you could move a large body of troops nearly anywhere in a sea zone on the board in a year…but there is no risk to the troops at all. If the lanes are clear, you simply move your forces. This isn’t very realistic, and as I said before I wish they would really work on this aspect of the game to make the sea part a bit more enjoyable, a bit less automatic, and a lot more realistic.

-XT

14

Wow some great answers! Thank you. I play on the normal level and I was doing ok. I conquered Spain, Turkey and part of Russia with occassional skirmishes into France/Germany. Then my money ran out due to the lack of trading and the huge English navy. This information should help me change all of that.

15

Another really good ‘trick’ a friend told me about when the game first came out, Lochdale, is to set Auto Manage Tax, and Auto Assign Titles to on. This helps a LOT, and takes a burden off you of trying to find the perfect general to grant noble titles too…as well as the headache of constantly trying to tweek the taxes. I’ve found that, as long as you don’t have your main field force defeated in battle, the auto tax thing works great and your provinces won’t rebel. It actually does a decent job of making sure the province loyalty stays up while squeezing the maximum tax out of your territories.

-XT

16

One thing I’ve never been able to figure out is, How do you dismount knights and other troops that are able to do so? Anybody know?

17

I believe when you right click on a unit, the option appears in the context menu.

18

Its on of the options on the bar…Dismount Troops or something like that. I think you have to do it before the battle starts. Its not something I usually do so I’m not 100% sure. I don’t actually use a lot of cavalry, relying more on infantry with maybe 1 or 2 cavalry units per army to act as a moble force, or a harrying force once the enemy lines are broken.

-XT

19

Also uncheck ‘show computer moves’ and ‘display non critical messages’. This speeds up the game and reduces all that endless clicking you have to do each turn.

Last night I poped it in and selected Spanish at random I beat the game by 1190 (hard setting) it seemed about average for me.

I wonder what everyone’s record is?

Also on trade you can trade over land with neighbors but it’s alot less then sea trade and you are usually at war with your neighbors anyway so you don’t get money from them. So when you’re setting up your econ think like this. Land improvements are stable. Trade improvements are a lot more cash but far less stable and a lot harder to set up. If you’re a war monger like me trade income isn’t worth setting up until I have a large enough navy to trade with people I won’t be at war with for a long time.

20

Well, I’ll be honest Darkhold…I don’t think I’ve ever won by 1190 on the hard/expert setting with any of the nations (I suppose I COULD with the two easy muslim nations if I really wanted too). I usually have control of the board on hard or expert by mid 1200’s (i.e. I’m the dominant military/economic power) and usually can win the game outright by 1300’s. Most times I actually ramp down my forces (i.e. go for quality over quantity) and build the really cool units you get in the 1300’s (like Gothic Knights/Sergeants, Swiss Armored Pikemen, etc) and play on from there. I guess I just have a different style of play. I like to try and win lopsided tactical battles…this is the most fun part of the game for me. My record is taking on 10,000 screaming Egyptians with a force of 900 germans (Swiss Armored Pikemen, Gothic Sergeants, Xbow men, Arquebusiers, Archers, 1 Serpentine Canon, etc)…my total losses were something like 150, and they lost over 7000. Was a good battle. :slight_smile:

A good friend of mine plays like you…he goes for quantity over quality as far as units goes…and he can usually manage to win early with very agressive play.

I usually leave Show Computer Moves on, myself, as you can see better where they are moving that way IMO. But I turn off the messages too, and turn on the Auto Tax/Titles. Sometimes I turn on Auto Build too, but they usually don’t make the same decisions I would so mostly I leave this off.

-XT