It seems a bollox decision for a few reasons. It wasn’t two guys sprinting for the stage win throwing elbows and cutting one another up - it was a cagey group finish with Cav looking to hold up, he wouldn’t have been arsed if Thor passed him particularly. There was no intent on his part to stick Thor into the boards. He should have been given a warning, because he moved across Thor’s line, and left at that.
It also means the green has been decided by the judges, and not on the road, which sucks. AFAIK that will be it for sprinting until the Champs Elysee - rest day, tt, mountains means nothing much will happen sprint wise in the final week. It could have been a dramatic showdown in the final finish.
Alberto laid down the law today. Quite an amazing sight really. I think anyone who has turned the pedals in anger, be it amateur racing or even just up a hill on your work commute, can appreciate what a supremely stylish and strong rider he is. Great to see Bradley looking so strong as well, tough performance today. He’s riding out of his skin this tour.
No, they were controlling. Did you not see how much the gap to Contador increased when they were front of their little group, until a couple people finally went around them?
He could very easily not know. Do you know that he and AC have gone at it, flat out, on a “trial” mountain stage to see which was fastest before the Tour? They haven’t raced each other in anger on comparable stage or stages before as far as I know. LA may well have thought that just maybe he could mix it up with AC.
That makes no sense for a number of reasons, including JB’s explanation after the stage. He said “they [LA & Kloden] were setting tempo in order to minimize the time gap at the end.” Yeah well, what about the other GC riders they were dragging along? Weren’t you helping them minimize the difference as well? They drafted, thus conserving critical energy for as much as they could and then pulled away. Add that to the fact that Lance finally cracked and it’s not hard to conclude they [him and Kloden] weren’t exactly holding back their “tempo” nor trying to control. Besides it’s only common courtesy that when you have a teammate on a mountain breakaway you sit back on the wheels of your opponents and try to control from there.
No, I believe Lance, with the same stubbornness that made him a Tour legend, was not yet ready to concede. That he did so after the fact only goes to prove what Princhester mentioned: he wanted to find out on his own whether he could go power to power w/Alberto…and finally realized he simply can’t.
Look, I respect LA a lot for all his done, but come on, true champions in general are not known for their strawberries and cream approach to racing – and Lance’s prior reputation and the climate of unrest he created at Astana since his return (including a number of unwarranted digs at AC) shouldn’t come as a big surprise to anyone. Still and all, if he meant what he said yesterday, kudos to him for finally coming to terms with the fact that he not only doesn’t rule the peloton anymore but that he is second man on the totem pole in his (AC’s really) own team.
Minimizing a time gap is not chasing; I would think you would know that. Also, it was not to minimize the gap to Contador, clearly, but to the other rivals. Until it was apparent some of his rivals were going to get away, LA did obviously try to control the pursuit of Contador. In the end, he didn’t have the legs to do that, and some of his rivals finally slipped past him, but …
Armstrong didn’t “crack,” he was simply unable to respond the tempo of the 4-5 riders in the Tour who are better climbers than he is. It’s very silly to say he cracked. Kloden was helping him, yes, but that was to assist with minimizing the gap to the other rivals (i.e., not Contador. If it had been only Contador ahead they would have let him go, as they did.) LA did not organize a chase of Contador for even one second.
I do not doubt LA’s ambitious nature; but I am also pretty sure he always knew somewhere that this was going to be Contador’s race, and moreover that it was going to be a real stretch for him to stay in contact. And lastly, he knows exactly what it means to be a teammate, instead of leader, and has made numerous decisions over the course of this year’s Tour that are clearly in that category.
There is more than enough evidence for LA’s choices on this Tour that he knew Contador was the leader. He also kept a small amount of “what if” for himself, because, hey, you never know, but made plenty of comments before the Tour indicating that he knew Contador would be the man to beat, and that he himself was not quite going to be in his former, champion form.
I still assert that the majority of the inter-team “drama” was manufactured by fanboys and the press. Not all of it, but most of it.
The only real part of the drama is that LA probably was, as I said, keeping some “what if” for himself, whereas Contador perhaps expected LA to work for him, only for him, 100%. But that is a far cry from this “drama” people keep making up that wasn’t there. LA knows how to be a teammate.
ETA for the above post: when I say “his rivals,” the first man LA had to try to deal with was Schleck. When they rode tempo, they were trying to keep contact with Schleck (but couldn’t do it.) Soon enough, the others slipped by. I did not see LA attempt any real chasing of Contador.
'cept for the fact that other than Andy there were no other rivals ahead at the time. Again, it is an unwritten rule of road cycling that you do not pace (or whatever semantic quibble you’d like to use) your teammates rivals on a breakaway.
I would think you’d know that “control” by pacing the pack uphill is indeed “giving chase.”
Of course he cracked – that’s why he was dropped by every member of the original chase and Sastre who came in from behind – never mind his own teammate, Kloden, who gave up on dragging him uphill in the last 300 mt. Had the climb continued for another km or so, you would have seen a classic definition of “cracking.” However if it makes you feel better, call it a "fissure.
And obviously, the reason he cracked was that he was going all out – doubt if he would have ridden tempo all the way up the same would have happened.
Disagree. What Princhester said.
Right. Like telling his teammates to pull when AC got caught on a wind induced break on stage 3. Way to treat the so-called leader of your squad – how do you think he would have reacted to such a move against him in his heyday?
Never mind the hissy-fit he pulled 'cause good friend Georgie was done in by those meanies at Garmin. Who the hell is he to tell the rest of the peloton who he’d like in yellow?
Look, as I’ve said many times before in this thread, I admire LA accomplishments in The Tour. However, I am no fan of his or his gigamongous ego. Obviously you are – I mean of Lance not necessarily his ego.
Plenty of articles in Spanish crtizicing the tactics I am talking about. Found this one making the same point in English. From here:
Seriously, can anyone imagine Heras, Landis, or Hamilton leading the chase group after an LA attack in 99-05? Not me. They would have stopped pedaling, got on a few wheels, or just fallen off altogether.
In the same fashion, I don’t see any tactical justification for Kloden and Armstrong riding at the front of the group rather than letting Wiggins, Evans, Frank et al do the work.
It’s a good stage today. Exciting to see the Schlecks trying to stretch Alberto, but ultimately nothing doing - great legs by the Old Man to bridge up, once he got there they seemed to call it a day. Wiggins sitting in looking good.
Jens Voight has just gone down badly, poor guy. Seemed to lose his wheel on the painted line on the road, then hit the tarmac flat on his chest at 40+ mph. He’d worked his arse off all day - hope he’s alright.
Yep, agreed, good show all around including LA’s comeback and Astarloza’s impressive finish. But once more I’ll note my displeasure with the layout – had the stage ended on the mountaintop, even if the finishing gradients were rather soft, I’m pretty sure we would have seen a couple of more attacks. As it was, really no point as 10, 15, 20 secs gained by further attacks (enough to make some differences in the GC) would have been gobbled-up in the descent…so why put in the hard work?
BTW, I’m amazed by this Wiggins guy. From track medalist to GT contender in a matter of months. The hell?
As do I. Looks like a broken fork from watching the replay. Nasty.
Anyhow, great stage today and terrific work by the Schleck brothers with a strange attack by Klodin. This is exactly the stage that A. Schleck needed if he has any hope for a podium. He’s gonna lose heaps of time tomorrow.
I think you mean Contador’s move. Simply put, he was doing what every great GT rider in the past has done: trying to put more time between himself and second place – regardless of who that might be.
Hell’s bells, if anything the kid needs to learn to become more ruthless.
Funny that there are all sorts of articles in American newspapers – and the ubiquitous twits (digs really) from Lance and pal Levi – about what a “bad teammate” Contador is. Guess it was fine for Lance to gain time on his “team-leader” on stage three but now it’s all f-up when Conta tries it legitimately. As for Kloden, yeah sure, he was dropped but its not like he was doing anything to help Alberto battle the Schlecks prior to – he was simply stuck to Alberto’s wheel.
And lastly, if Lance is such a “super-teammate” why did he blow by the very Kloden in the last km? If memory serves, the very Kloden that was pacing Lance up Arcalis and Verbier to his own detriment. :rolleyes:
Meanwhile the only controversy I see and what should have been the real news of the day is this:
Tells me all I need to know about “sportsmanship” and the allegiances inside Team Astana. I mean, surely they couldn’t have waited till say…oh…Monday to announce this?
Thor was impressive today. I didn’t see it live, as it was about time I actually did something at work, but it sounded like he threw it down to Cavendish and showed him who is the real strong man of the Tour. Not enough being the fastest guy in a bunch sprint to win the green. Thor was probably stung by Cav basically accusing him of wearing the green skirt, rather than the green jersey.
How does Contador come across redfury? Not being a Spanish speaker it’s hard to get a picture of his character away from the bike. Is he brash / humble, does he have a bit of personality? Is he visibly annoyed by the Lance media steamroller?
I don’t think Contador’s move was unsportsmanlike, but I do think it was rash. At the time he attacked, he’d already put 2+ minutes into Armstrong and Wiggins. At that point, he needed to worry more about the Schleck brothers (who will lose time tomorrow, but are the most likely to make up time on Ventoux). By dropping Kloden but not the Schlecks, he didn’t buy himself anything and had he flatted or had some other mechanical mishap on the descent, he could have lost big chunks of time to his main climbing rivals.
The safe play would have been to let Andy and Frank drag Kloden and him up to the summit and be content with maintaining his lead over the Schlecks and putting 2-3 minutes in to Armstrong/Wiggins. Basically, he would have had the same results as he ultimately got today, but it would have been less risky.
Perhaps the easiest way to describe him is that he comes across as the polar opposite of Contador the rider. Likely the flashiest, most charismatic and entertaining rider in stage races today, he is rather camera shy, humble, earthy and very family oriented (his older brother, Francisco, an engineer by profession is now his full time aide-de-camp). Having said that, he does make it clear in his own quiet ways that he loves to ride more than anything, that training for him is actually fun and that barring an off day he considers himself a step above the rest at the moment – nothing earth-shaking if one looks at his record over the past two years.
As for the whole Astana to-do, although low profile about it, he did hint that it was making his Tour doubly difficult in terms of mental challenges – although after his ride up Verbier he was obviously relieved. Again though, you’re much more likely to get a juicy quote from brother Francisco about his state of mind than you are from him. Best you got from Alberto was when he said that “let everyone draw their own conclusions” and that “the road would put everyone in their place” – that was after the stage three incident and about the only time you could read the anger/disappointment in his face. Turns out he was rather prophetic to boot.
Yesterday’s move: yes, I agree, it’s debatable one way or another. Meaning that I am not discounting in the least the side that claims it wasn’t either the smartest nor safest of moves. But there’s also a good argument to be made for the attacking riding of yesteryear, when MJs of the caliber of Merckx, Hinault and Indurain, would think nothing of going into the offensive if only to bury you a bit further. Hell, you can make a case for Lance doing the same in his 99/00 campaigns. The whole “getting a lead and sitting on the wheels of any attack” strategy that the Lance/JB tandem made so successful, clearly worked. But there’s a whole lot of Tour lore (and Giro and Vuelta) that shows that that is hardly the only way. And I’d argue that from a fan’s perspective the latter is much more exciting to watch than the radio-driven strategical defensive riding that has prevailed over the past decade.
In any event, no matter whose side you favor what has me irked (not to mention hundreds of thousands of Alberto fans and the Spanish press as a whole) are the obvious conflicts of interests that LA brought with him to the team – compounded by Bruyneel’s natural loyalty to his former star and current good friend.
Seriously, just take a look at this after race quote from Johan:
– bolding mine.
No shit Sherlock. Then why try to make Alberto play the role of a domestique’s domestique and/or add to the hoopla over what was basically a non-event?
So there you have it, guys. The power behind the power. And I also call BS on Lance “biting his tongue.” As I mentioned yesterday he was having quite the day at the office on Twitter – along with bestest pal, Hincapie.
I’m with fiddlesticks’ on this one though I don’t know who he favors. Let each ride for their own teams next year (really hope Alonso’s project with Santander’s backing for an all-Spanish squad comes through) and let’s see who JB/Lance hire to track Conta’s wheel – because it’s sure as shite that Lance can’t.
