Tourists' truthful accounts of foreign countries

I have lived in 4 different countries for more than a year, not including my first 18 in the US and 8 (and counting) in Japan. My observations:

Hong Kong: Awesome food. I would go back today for another year, just to eat. People were nice (i.e., not necessarily rude on purpose), but belching/farting etc in just about any public venue was grating on my Western-based cultural expectations. Other common occurances just seemed petty: people refusing to line up for buses/trains/ATMs, with a resulting mess of elbows and knees (yo, Hong Kong-ers: you will find more room on the elevators/buses/trains if you let people getting off out first). I ended up leaving Hong Kong because I could not stand the uncivilized people, even while admitting that I may be basing this on my Western upbringing.

Canada: Loved it. America without the guns indeed. Also without the sickening food portions, the garbage, and the stupid people. Amazing that a country this close in geographical and cultural aspects can be so darn different. I would move to Canada in a hearbeat.

NZ: Loved it. A country full of sports freaks, so I fit right in. Doesn’t seem like deoderant is all that popular yet, which meant for some anxious moments in elevators with guys who had just ran in to work (literally). The ice cream was to die for, and I have the bulging waist line and hardened arteries to prove it. Very active, friendly people and families seemed to be fairly close.

India: Hated it. I tried so damn hard to avoid seeing/hearing/talking through my ‘Western upbringing’, having lived half my life in countries other than the one I was born in, this should not be difficult. But I had a real hard time living among smelly, dirty people who seemed so intent and fervent in how ‘right’ they were about everything. (Even more so than Americans!). People were very thin-skinned; any comment made that even slightly seemed like a negative was due to my ‘Western/racist’ thinking. Would not go back to India if you paid me to live there.

Japan: Lots of smokers, but smoking only became really non-PC in the last 10 years or so in the US, so no big deal. As a consumer, Japan is heaven. Store people are polite and helpful almost to a fault. The wrappings done for any purchase (not just gift wrapping) are an art, and have to be seen to be believed. I have never eally understood Japan’s complex about their small homes; I find them much easier to clean <g>. The girls are stunning (Hong Kong and France a close second, but I only spent few weeks in France, so I can’t give an expert opinion. I also hear good things about Brazil).
I think Westerners have a real hard time identifying with Middle Eastern cultures. At least I do. Japan? People making a big fuss about the ‘male dominated’ society have no clue what they are talking about.

Back to the OP (sort of): define friendly. In my experiences: Friendliest stores? Japan or maybe NZ. Friendliest neighbors? Canada. Friendliest ‘friends’? Japan and Hong Kong. Friendliest co-workers? Japan, NZ. Best food? HK, Japan. Best women? Japan, HK. Best men? (according to three female friends of mine, all of different nationality/race): NZ, Spain.

I do think it comes down to your attitude: what do you expecct? Do you expect to be ripped off by local taxi drivers? Then every wrong turn will be on purpose. You can not get a proper ‘read’ of a country in one week, spent as a tourist in hotels and at tourist spots. Even a year of simply ‘living’ in a country is probably not enough - you lack a sufficient ‘common background’ to really fit in. By this I mean everything from child-hood tv programs (Sesame Street), to songs popular when we were in junior high (99 Luft Balloons), cliches, old idioms, etc. I love it when people get an autograph from someone and then say that ‘so and so is really _______’ (fill in adjective) based on their one, 10-second encounter.

Geez, long post…

G. Nome and Primaflora quite separately enquired:

After searching through my diary I found a reference to it. It’s called The Passionless People (sorry, I never wrote down the author’s name and I couldn’t find it on the Oxford Library Information Service site). It contains a lot of what G. Nome has thus far written about NZ, plus a word-perfect description of “That Bitch”, which I reproduce here to give you a flavo(u)r of the book. (I won’t hesistate to add here: Your Mileage May Vary–A Lot)

Yikes! And you thought G. Nome was being harsh on the Enzeds!

Isn’t that called “rugby”? :smiley:

I lived in Okinawa (Japan) for 2 years in the military and loved it. I lived off base and my apartment was the concrete type of thing. No tatami mats, just laminate flooring over concrete. My washer was out on my balcony, which I found amusing. I found the people to be extremely nice, very helpful, eager to please, and just overall nice folks. I did quite a bit of traveling on the island and this niceness wasn’t confined to the areas around the bases.

I visited Korea for a week while I was in Okinawa, just before the Olympics in Seoul. Food was fabulous, people were nice, and I had no problems getting around. I would LOVE to visit Seoul again. Walked around the Tongdemuen (sp!) (East Gate Market) and I can say, hands down, it was the most fascinating shopping experience of my life. Aisles of buttons, and then aisles of fabric, then stereo equipment, then food - live and dead - then books. Incredible.

I’ve never been to NZ, although I know many Kiwis and they have been without exception fun people to be with (except when the topic is rugby, when they start to foam at the mouth – not unlike Canadians and ice hockey).

As an American in England, I have a hard time seeing one country’s people as any more or less friendly than any other. I just spent two weeks in Nebraska, and those folks are extremely friendly and helpful (although were I not white my experience might be somewhat different). The English, too, are friendly, except for the waitstaff and any other person in a customer service industry, all of whom are specially trained in “surly”.

I’ve travelled in France and Italy in the last year; in both cases I had few instances of rudeness (although my first time in Paris I got off the train and was immediately vilely insulted by a beggar (see – those high school French lessons paid off :))). As for Italy – not so many English speakers (I spent most of my time in Palermo) but it’s still not hard to get around, and oh! the food…it was so wonderful I get flashbacks.

Istanbul is very much a market city – everyone is trying to sell you something, or wants to be your guide, or has a cousin who has this restaurant… Look straight ahead and whatever you do, don’t talk to them – if they can’t figure out what language you speak, they won’t know if you understand them or not. Apart from the people selling things, most Turks I met were warm and hospitable.

Belgium. I went to Bruges, which is one of the few places that actually looks like its postcards. I recommend it. You can see the whole city in a day, though. And, by God, what must their school system be like – everyone I met spoke reasonably good to flawless English, German, French, and Dutch (I’m guessing about the Dutch here). Pity Brussels was a bit of a dump.

My general impression in Europe is that while most people speak English, if you start out by trying to speak their language (even by asking "Parlez-vous Anglais?), you get a much better reception than if you just assume they do. I never had anyone say no, BTW. I was also probably lucky in that I don’t have an “American” accent (most people assume I’m Canadian, or maybe Irish); being tagged immediately as an American makes things more difficult in Europe.

So everybody wants to move to Canada (and I have to say I’m tempted too). What are the immigration controls like to keep all the Americans out? :wink:

G.Nome is confirming for me that she really lives in some alternate peculiar reality…

Duke, that book’s written by Gordon McLauchan (won’t swear that I spelt his name right ). I haven’t read it but it was not hugely well reviewed and it does seem to be his own personal take on things. I don’t relate at all to the description of the woman. Perhaps it is an accurate description of G.Nome? :smiley:

I have a long forgotten copy of that book which was literally covered in 6 inches of cobwebs. There’s a range of descriptions in it for Primaflora to choose from - perhaps this one is more her:

“It is believed that the New Zealand wife lasts such a long time as a sex partner because she has so few moving parts; but, like a car engine, she ultimately loses performance because of too many short runs and not enough long trips.”

So says Gordon “Flynt” McLauchlan.

Primaflora, that The Passionless People wasn’t “well reviewed” in NZ seems little surprise. Kinda like saying a book called something like Americans are Big Fat Idiots wouldn’t sell like hotcakes in the US. Gordon McLauchlan (from the name, he sounds a lot more like a Canadian actually) appears to be a real nutcase misogynist. I only quoted the book because, in the case of “the nameless one” the words were absolutely true.

Time, I think, to close the book on that one, not before time. So, how 'bout that Emily Drumm?..

I should point out that while perverts on trains are a common problem in Japan, nearly every interview I have seen/read/heard about indicates that perverts would never even think about molesting a Western-looking female, who they assume will raise bloody hell. Not to say that it wouldn’t happen, but after a long time here in Japan, my gut feeling is that is just isn’t very damn likely, especially when most foreign females I see here in Tokyo are simply too far and away removed from what Japanese perverts like (anything other than sheer obesity).

By and large, the problem is women jumping to conclusions and expecting to be victims (one women told me that she ‘is always molested because all Japanese men are such pigs’); nevermind the fact that the trains are so crowded you almost have to accept a bit of uncomfortable closeness to get by. I have read that ‘space’ around a person considered to be ‘their own’ is far smaller for people in Japan (not unusual, considering the crowded trains/subways/elevators etc.) compared to Westerners; Westerners simply have a problem with what is considered to be an invasion of personal space, when it is just par for the course in some other countries.

I noticed this in the Middle East as well, when two men having a conversation will stand very close to each other, compared to two Western men.

Nearly all the Western females I have met with more than 3-5 years experience in Japan have mentioned that they had never been molested. Many of the Western females I have met who said they had been molested were only here for a year, or even only a few months. Again, not so say that it doesn’t happen, but I think this is often the case of people ‘getting’ what they expect.

I’ve been to Italy, and I believe it rocked.
The biggest problem is that I stuck out as a tourist a lot, due to the fact that I look as un-Italian as you can get. The only effect of this, though, was that people on the street were rude to me (at least in Rome and a little in Florence. But not at all in Sorrento.)
Storekeepers and whatnot were generally fine, and the almost all had a limited grasp of English. Enough to know what you ordered or how much you owe.
I’ll never forget my favourite moment to date from that trip.
I was standing near a dock on the Mediterranean in Sorrento next to the girl of my dreams. We were eating some of the most delicious strawberries I’ve ever had, and watching a group of dolphins swim by.
If she only knew how I felt…

Sorry, got all emotional on you there.

I lived in Japan (two trips) for a total of about 1.5 years; parts I loved, parts I hated. One of the reasons for the kerosene: remember, Japan has essentially no domestic source of fuel, so it’s all imported and all expensive. More modern buildings may have electric heaters, but often only in one or two rooms because the bills are so high. Ditto a/c. Plus, traditionally Japanese houses were built to breathe because the summers are so oppressive – only very recently would it have made any sense to add insulation (and I’m not sure they do yet, since they’ve never quite got in the habit of central HVAC).

Other backwards aspects: the medical care system. I was hospitalized in Japan with hepatitis A (it’s endemic, be sure to get jabbed before you go), and although I was lucky to be in a modern hospital, health care as a whole is about 40 years behind. Even basic sterilization at some clinics was awful, and Osaka’s leading hospital - where an acquaintance was being treated for heart ailments - was filthy. A pediatrician whose children I tutored in English had trained in Canada, and said that any physician who really wants to practice properly trains in North America. Of course, the irony is that their life expectancies are so far ahead of our more technological medical system!

The people are rather reserved - but only at first. They are overwhelmingly friendly once the initial introduction’s made. And I mean everyone - as a teacher I didn’t spend much time in touristy areas, instead spending most of my assignments in rural and semi-rural schools.

More recently I had an amazing time in Spain. There I was more of a tourist, but got off the beaten track enough to see that the warmth was pretty universal. And the men are incredible, one guy I’ll always remember…

Quebec is kind of its own experience - again, really loved Montreal and (ok, so I’m perpetuating the gay-slut stereotype) really sexy guys. I was last there in '95, when the economy was a bit of a wreck, but I hear it’s improved lately. Not as warm as Spain, and the French can be impossible to understand (in its more extreme forms, the Quebec accent is to French what South(ie) Boston is to English).

Duke and Primaflora: I don’t think it’s at all clear from reading the book that McLauchlan is, in fact, a nutcase misogynist. He also says this (among a lot of other things sympathetic to women):

The primitive disregard for the welfare of the spirit and personality of New Zealand women has persisted thoughout our history…

The words Duke quoted were McLauchlan’s voice, I suppose, but the ones I quoted were perhaps intended by McLauchlan to be resonant of New Zealand misogynism - something he would disown as part of his own personality. I don’t know. It’s slightly confusing.

The word is misogyny, sorry. And because this is on another page the book I am referring to is the Passionless People.

Also: I would like to ask this about Japan: Do Japanese people seem to be in a perpetual state of exhaustion in their own country? A common sight in New Zealand is a tour bus full of “sightseeing” Japanese who are, in fact, fast asleep.

If ever I saw a hostage to fortune, this quote is it. But I’m sure NZ does have its exciting moments…
Also, I have to say, G.Nome, that you are one contrary character. I kind of like it but I think you drive Primaflora (and maybe others) completely around the bend. Great fun to observe but I can almost hear Prima bashing her head on the keyboard.

(Sorry Primaflora :wink: )

Japanese will fall asleep on just about any moving vehicle, be it bus, train, boat, or camel. I do now as well, having been here so long; I struggle to stay awake on trains in other countries, where falling asleep is like begging to be relieved of your wallet).

One little pet peeve I have about most Japanese vacations (if you can call them that) is that they whiz through three countries and five cities in six days; they only time they sleep is while on the move. This is partially because it is so hard to take time off; most Japanese men are lucky to get one 10-day stretch off every 5 years or so.

Most women, on the other hand (working women included) find it much easier to take time off, which is why after older (perhaps retired) couples, perhaps the most common traveling unit in Japanese tours is two female friends.

Oh, I see. I assumed they had been looking out the tour bus window…counting sheep. Sorry.

Actually, Canada’s one of the easier western countries to immigrate to. They have a “points system” where if you meet enough criteria WRT education, work experience, etc you can immigrate there without needed a company to sponsor you, as they assume that anyone with your background will be able to find a job and contribute to the economy fairly easily.

I wish a country I actually wanted to move to would adopt this system…

heh… when i tried to visit last year, they wouldn’t let me in! said if they let me in, i wasn’t likely to return to the united states because i didn’t own any property and had too much money in my checking account! nothing like the arbitrary hatred of an immigration officer to start your trip off right.

eventually i made it to montreal, and i loved it, for the most part. you can get delicious belgian-style french fries, and there are pizza by the slice places on every corner of every street, and they never close. i would buy a plane ticket just for one dinner at pizzedelic or frite alors.

but oh yes- what are the people like. friendly? the french speakers all thought i was canadian, and to my delight, a lot of anglo montrealers did too. although i later learned they were kind of slagging me off by asking if i was from toronto. i have a complex in foreign countries and assume everyone loathes me. as long as i get to be the star! hehehe… i try my darndest to be nice, or at least invisible, but if get the sense someone really doesn’t like me, i figure hey, by the time i return to this other country, you won’t work here anymore, so why don’t i see how much i can annoy you? not really. but it’s a thought. okay, i did it a few times.

the small B&Bs in scotland gave us room discounts when we told them we were from texas. this baffled us. or do you just ask where we’re from and then say “great! discounts for people from country x!” the keepers of the B&Bs there cracked us up. they woke us up early for breakfast by banging on the door and making noise like they were our parents or something, and then chatted us up all through breakfast. being treated like that by total strangers is just totally baffling and overwhelming, i was just laughing my head off. it was priceless. i loved it. one innkeeper spent most of the conversation ragging on the english. then his daughter started yelling at him to not make fun of the english in front of the americans! oh god. price. less.

i loved the surly english waiters and waitresses. you always could tell exactly how they felt, whereas in an american restaurant, there is an impenetrable shell of bubbliness, and you’ve really got to be a bastard to get any reaction from them that deviates from the tgi friday’s handbook. all you have to do in england is ask for ice water.

of course none of this holds any water. if i want to eat somewhere where i’ll be treated like crap by the waitresses, i know where to go here in austin.

i used to want to go to new zealand, but i don’t now. even if they do make the best pop music. nobody told me it was because the girls are sexless so there’s nothing else to do!

-fh

One quick point on Canadian immigration: it may be easy to emigrate to there, but you have to pay the Canadian government to do it, to cover the “processing costs” of handling your form. (When I was there for one year I had to pay $C500 initially, and $C100 for an extension. I think it’s about $C1,000 for a permanent stay.) Easy enough for us Westerners, not so easy if you’re coming from, say, sub-Saharan Africa. The UK has recently adopted this somewhat unenlightened policy.

Carry on as you were now…

Young Moroccans are assholes.

That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it.