Q) How do you stop a dog from humping your leg?
A) PICK IT UP AND SUCK ITS DICK!!
Myster Ecks
I like your example, and your analysis; it reminds me once more how risky it is to make categorical statements like the one I expressed in my post. Then again, I expect to get new insights from the other participants all the time; that’s why I come to this board.
When I said sex shouldn’t be coerced, and chose to phrase it categorically, it was because it follows directly from a principle I believe in, but to which not everybody subscribes. Namely, that sex should be the result of love. Love never instills fear, and never coerces.
Yes, I believe F knows better than I what it is that she wants to do. Moreover, if she makes that offer, she probably does it out of love for M; and even if she does it just to avoid being dumped, it’s still something I couldn’t possibly judge. She’s a mature adult, and is entitled to her own mistakes.
But then, you said:
What about a fourth choice: he can decide to be noble, decline to have sex but not break up, and therefore be happy with the relationship. Yes, he might not be able to follow this path, since you said he doesn’t love her. But if he doesn’t love her, he shouldn’t have sex with her.
What I failed to realize was that this was a discussion about a *common sexual ethic. I do not claim that my position makes the cut.
I would like to ask a few questions?
Can my 19 year old brother have sex with his 16 year old girlfriend?
My 26 year old grandfather married my 14 year old grandmother. This was in the 1930s, and was common among sharcroppers. Was this OK or was he a pervert?
What if a 50 year old Navy guy retires and lives in the Philipine (sp) islands, and then lives with a 16 year old island girl. Is he rescuing her from a life of poverty or is he taking advantage of an innocent child?
I this something should be added here about prohibiting sex between adolescents and people in positions of authority. I don’t care how mature you are, it is wrong to have sex with your math teacher/therapist/gymnastics coach. It is so unethical it makes me want to puke.
The only one I would disagree with outright would be #6 (yes, the necrophilia-bestiality one). While I don’t see anything inherently wrong with bestiality, I do admit that it is (a) arguable and (b) complicated. As for necrophilia, if we assume that the corpse is “yours” to begin with, it seems no more ethically wrong than any other health code violation.
You have to be careful with #7, as your maturity qualifier has been used by countless borderline-pedophiles (". . .but she was so mature for her age.") As a rule of thumb, it’s probably safer for adults to have sex w/ adolescent boys, since they tend to attach less emotional significance to such encounters than do girls (this is not universally true, but it is generally true).
Finally, I’m surprised that incest didn’t make the list, though (again) I see nothing inherently wrong with the practice.
Spider Woman said:
Nope. That one’s mine, in all it’s glory.
lambda said:
Actually, I would agree with you. But as you note, not everybody does, and I think that’s especially true for males.
As I said above, I agree with your final sentence. But I’m postulating that M is most likely not going to be able to pull that off, which means that the situation is such that one or the other (or both) have to be unhappy.
The truth is that this sort of situation does come up–it’s something of a Dear Abby classic. And the real solution would be for people to talk about sexual attitudes beforestarting to seriously date. But that doesn’t happen in our society.
VarlosZ said:
Mary Kay Letourneau (sp?) would beg to differ.
Incest is more a legal/religious concept than anything else. It’s hard to even come up with an exact definition for legal purposes–for instance, whether first cousin relationships constitute incest. (In a majority of states first cousins can marry, as a matter of fact.) And unless things have changed in the last few years, I know of one state (Michigan) in which even close incest (parent-child) is not a criminal offense. (Provided the child is above the age of consent, of course.)
It seems their are incest taboos in almost every society. There have been notable exceptions, especially among royals families marrying cousins, (and then there’s that Pharonic incest someone on the board is an expert in).
Here in Central Minnesota we have something called Stearns County Syndrome, which I first heard about from my high school biology teacher. This describes a correlational study that suggested a link between the high amount of incest and the high amount of birth defects in this county (which is now the county where I live).
The term Stearns County Syndrome came to mean something else over the years. Now when you hear someone refer to it, they are usually talking about a type of person believed to be a red-neck (i can’t think of a better term right now).
But back to the incest thing, I think the really bad thing about it, at least the cases that are still occasionally reported and make the papers around here, are those involving an adult or much older child and a vulnerable child who really has no choice in the matter and is being victimized, and that would be covered by both #4 and #5 in Polycarp’s list.
the view has been expressed here that it wouldn’t necessarily be wrong to engage in sex with a dead adult, but that if the body were that of a child, it might get complicated–so, well, let’s get complicated. why would sex with a dead child be any more morally wrong than sex with a dead adult? neither could consent, and both are inanimate objects–the only difference i can see would be that you wouldn’t be able to tell yourself they might consent if they were alive. And that it’s a little more “icky”, but we obviously aren’t equating morality with ickiness, or we wouldn’t even be discussing this.
also–and I may regret saying this–in my opinion, #1 holds true. It’s my belief that if a person disagrees with his or her claimed religious faith in one or more fundamental ways, and commonly disregards facets of this faith in everyday living, then he or she has created and is participating in a different religion entirely.
Damn, this is a good thread! Let’s see…
Hmm. I’m sure a lot of people would agree with this in theory, but a lot of Christianity (the only religion I know much about) is pretty damn hard to follow in practice. According to the Bible, even thinking about committing adultery is the same as actually doing it. This creates a no-win situation. I would say you should make a sincere effort to follow your professed faith, or else you are a hypocrite.
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I agree.
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I agree.
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I agree
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I think this is vaguely worded. Children can go through puberty anywhere from 8-20 years old, at the extremes. I agree with the sentiment though: children should not be subjects of sexual arousal or activity in general. I just think it depends on how a “child” is defined. You’d have to go on a case-by-case basis. But that leaves the whole thing open as a matter of opinion. Maybe I would thing a girl’s too young, but someone else might not.
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Well, they’re not things I would do, but as long as people are doing it privately, it doesn’t bother me. But if they start claiming it should be taught in sex-ed classes, then I’d have a problem.
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You would have to have God-like Omniscience to be able to live up to this. I know 30-year-olds who can’t make an adult decision. And just what is an “adolescent”? Besides, what difference does it make if they both are adolescents? If the definition of “adolescent” is that they are unable to make an adult decision, then shouldn’t neither of them be having sex, with anyone?
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Again, it all depends on the definition of things. If I think someone is a pervert, I will call them a pervert. It’s my right to do so. That’s not “judging.” I think people have the right to set community standards of acceptable public behavior as a group. Those who have a problem with this should sit and reflect on this concept: “Life isn’t fair!”