Toying with the idea of getting back into serious amateur photography — play along with me?

Around 40 years ago I got VERY seriously into 35 mm photography. I had two match-needle Canon camera bodies, an AT-1 and a gorgeous F-1 (not the “New F1”). Also, prime lenses of 17, 28, 50, 135 and 300 mm, and a teleconverter. Also a 50 mm macro lens. And two macrophoto lenses that looked like black microscope objectives, and a bellows and extension tubes. All of it Canon brand. Then, a bunch of other accessories, including some from a couple very indulgent days in Spiratone’s amazing store in New York (it was worth it just for that fisheye attachment). I shot mostly Pan-X, Plus-X and Try-X, winding and developing it myself, and mostly printed on regular paper, though also sometimes the then-new RC papers and polycontrast papers, in my own darkroom in a house trailer. I studied the Zone System and read Ansel Adams, Minor White, Fred Picker, and others, and even learned Minor White’s trick of loading two thicknesses of film back to back onto a single reel for developing, in a film changing bag no less. I could shoot fairly well without metering, just by understanding exposure and reading the light, and I’d walk around with one camera strap around my neck, with a separate body and lens on each end of the strap, both set for a good versatile exposure and focused at the hyperfocal distance (infinity set at the upper end of the depth of field scale) so I could shoot in an instant. I dabbled a bit in color, and loved the Kodachrome 25, and tried the E6 process for Ektachrome. I even started color printing.

But it got to be too much like a job, and I sold it all and got out of the hobby.

Then I got some off brand cheesy wide range zoom lens on an off brand body, and used that for a few years sending film out for development and printing, and then sold it too.

Then I got back into it with Nikon equipment, with 24, 50, and 100 mm lenses, the 100 a macro. And an FM2 body. Sending film out. And that was fun for a while.

But then digital cameras came out, and I’ve had a few of them, superzoom all-in-one types.

And after that, iPhones, and I learned that the finest camera in the whole wide world is the one that you have with you. This was reason enough to opt for the iPhone 13 Pro Max, with three lenses including one that focuses quite close. I’m quite happy having that with me. Just a couple days ago I took a picture of the first tick of the season, quite a little guy, and was impressed with the quality of the photo.

But that old bug has never left me — lust for glass. Bigger lenses and film or sensor. Prime lenses. Super wide, super long, super fast. I guess I could afford to do it all again, and will have more time in retirement something like a year away. So sometimes my attention meanders like a butterfly onto the subject of digital photography with more serious equipment. And lenses, always the lenses.

So, what about Nikon — there’s FX and DX and Z mount. I like the idea of Z mount because it frees up lens design by getting the mounting further from the lens and further out of the optical path. But, wait, it appears not to be full frame. Should I get serious about a less than full frame format? For that matter, the regular lens mount is less restrictive, if we’re going to a smaller DX format, so maybe I should look at cheaper DX equipment? Or should I bite the bullet on FX format?

Maybe I should go back to Canon? Or somebody else — but I’d want a wide range of lenses available, including true macrophoto lenses, like a 20 mm and 35 mm to be used on bellows or extension tubes.

And, though I think it’s really about the glass, the camera body does matter, also. But I’m dismayed by the more automatic cameras I read about. I think of automation as an easy way of doing something I didn’t mean to do. I’d like a body oriented toward me choosing the aperture, shutter speed, and focus. Cameras with all those modes, I don’t understand. Like automatic transmission cars: the intended usage of each of the driving modes is too conceptually confusing! I’d rather just shift and clutch, which is conceptually about as simple as it gets. My ideal camera body would have a good fine resolution image sensor with a wide range of equivalent film speeds, and manual controls that fall naturally to the fingers. It should also have depth of field preview, and mirror lockup (if indeed it’s a reflex camera at all). As to cameras that are built to be used in automatic modes but have workarounds to let the user set aperture, shutter, and focus, those feel to me a bit like automatic transmission cars with those extra controls that let the driver kind of pretend to shift gears: they fix the wrong problem, by adding more conceptual complication, and just letting the driver go through the effort of shifting without having the simpler control feeling, making things worse.

Well.

Anybody want to play along? Share any similar experiences? It’s just, as I say, toying with the idea….

Lots of stuff to unpack, but I’ll just pull this one comment out. Yes, full frame is nice but isn’t required at all to have fun with a camera setup. If you’re not going to make poster sized prints from your images, full frame is of limited benefit. Crop frames, 4/3rds, or other form factors are more than adequate to explore the artistic range of new camera technology.

Take a look at the Fujifilm X camera line. That’s what I use and I love it, though I also have an iPhone 13 Pro in my pocket for the same reason you do.

Why I love Fuji X cameras: they have knobs and dials on them that let you choose shutter speed, aperture, and ISO exactly like you would on an old-school film camera. If I need to see if my camera is configured correctly for something, I give a quick glance a the various knobs. No need to squint at the display or dig deep into a menu.

Second reason to love these cameras: the size. I have a small camera bag that comfortably holds two bodies and three or four lenses, with other associated gear.

Third reason: they have a super neat optical / digital viewfinder. You use them like a rangefinder camera. There’s a little switch that flips between three modes: standard digital viewfinder, optical with overlay of self-correcting frame lines, and optical with a little digital square in the corner that shows the center area close up.

Two use cases that aren’t the strength of Fujifilm gear: sports photography and video. They can do either, but you probably want a Nikon or Canon for sports photography, and the controls/menus/operation aren’t optimal for video.

ETA: I agree with Telemark: don’t limit yourself to full frame unless you absolutely need it (these X cameras fall between micro 4/3 and full frame in sensor size).

I find it interesting that the OP is all about equipment and technology but not much about, you know, photos, except for the tick. This seems to be the norm among photographers and musicians.

I am perhaps not as serious, but I like to think I know what I’m doing. I do photography when time permits but it is my secondary hobby after jazz guitar. I like to take macro photos of insects and am still learning (after 40 years) how to best use my equipment to get the results I envision. I am better at taking photos of places and things than people. I also spend a lot of time taking pictures when I travel, to the extent my wife tolerates me setting up the shots. Unfortunately I am not able to visit each site at the optimum time of day for ideal lighting, so I take what I can get. The one exception is when I went to Bryce Canyon at dawn to get a photo I was very happy with. It was April but there was still snow on the ground and it was below freezing at that hour of the morning.

I have all Canon EOS SLR gear, but am now seeing the trend to go mirrorless. I don’t think I would get much benefit at this point by dumping thousands of dollars’ worth of equipment and spending even more thousands replacing it all with a mirrorless body and new glass (I don’t think the new cameras are compatible with my EOS lenses).

I’m not sure if I’m understanding your thoughts correctly, but it sounds like you’re wanting something that simply does not exist. All cameras that have manual modes, even the very expensive ones, come with a host of pre-sets and automatic modes of one sort or another.

For example, the Nikon Z7 (which is listed at $2500), has all this–

  • Picture Control

Auto
Flat
Landscape
Monochrome
Neutral
Portrait
Standard
Vivid
Creative Picture Controls: (Dream, Morning, Pop, Sunday, Somber, Dramatic, Silence, Bleached, Melancholic, Pure, Denim, Toy, Sepia, Blue, Red, Pink, Charcoal, Graphite, Binary, Carbon)
Selected Picture Control can be modified
Storage for custom Picture Controls

  • White Balance

Auto (3 types)
Choose color temperature (2,500 K–10,000 K)
Cloudy
Direct sunlight
Flash
Fluorescent (7 types)
Incandescent
Natural light auto
Preset manual (up to 6 values can be stored), all with fine-tuning
Shade

Using tweezers, grasp the tick just behind the head without squeezing and gently lift the tick up and out. The first 24 to 36 hours is important to avoid Lyme Disease.

Haha :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I was sort of in your boat; I really got into amateur photography about 18 or so years ago, when the first Canon Digital Rebel came out. I really got into it as well-- not as seriously as you, but I did a lot of experimenting with long exposures on tripods with filters to avoid overexposure, and wildlife photography where ‘right place right time’ is key. I really enjoyed and got a lot of satisfaction out of it. But kids and life got in the way and my hobby sort of fell by the wayside. I still have my original Digital Rebel and all the lenses, tripods, filters and various other paraphernalia. My OG Rebel at 6 Megapixels is probably laughably outdated to other photogs, but it still takes plenty nice pics when I do occasionally dust it off.

It’s a shame you sold off all your lenses, because I think those Canon lenses would still work with the new generation of Canon consumer / prosumer SLRs. You could probably do a middle ground with a decent entry-level SLR and a few carefully selected prosumer lenses-- whether you choose to go Nikon or Canon again I can only say, I know nothing of Nikon but have always had good experiences with Canon products. As for lenses, as I’m sure you remember the best ones can cost many times more than the camera body. I bought one or two expensive lenses but I’ve had good results with the less expensive Canon ‘prosumer’ ones.

Most of the Z bodies are full frame.

What are you looking to do with your pics? Poster to billboard you’d probably be better off with a full-frame; smaller enlargements & a DX/crop is more than enough to handle it.

Definitely anything at the prosumer level & up will allow you to shoot in full manual, as well as aperture priority or shutter priority; hell, some point-&-shoots will as well.

Agree with @CookingWithGas; mirrorless is the way to go for the future if you’re starting out/over & not so budget conscious. I can’t speak for his Canon equipment, but Nikon has adapter/extension tubes so that you can use your DX/FX lenses on a Z body. That being said, DSLR is by no means going away overnight. Nikon released the D780 not that long ago. There’s tons of stuff out there that’s not going away overnight & as people convert, it’ll be plentiful in the used market. More budget conscious people I’d steer toward used DSLR equipment which is still fine but might not have some of the features that mirrorless does.

Hey, this is very interesting and appealing! I will absolutely investigate. Do you find availability of prime lenses is good?

Yeah. There’s that. Artistically, I don’t have that much to say. I do like to be able to grab a record of something that’s hard to get. Elsewhere on this board, for example, people were talking about getting one’s eye right where a bit of cut glass or crystal is shining a spectrum onto the wall, and whether you see brilliant color or just white, and why. That sounds to me like something to take a picture of. But part of what appeals to me, uninspiring as it sounds to say it, is just how wonderful the lenses are.

I even designed a lens once, a very fast, very large aperture (like a foot or so), two element lens for monochromatic light. I mean working out the curvatures and spacings of the surfaces, using iterative numerical methods (and this with my own programming). It’s almost a collector’s itch. I really do like the lenses themselves.

Well, I guess I don’t actually mean that. I mean I want it to work well in manual mode. I’d like to not even try to learn about all the automatic modes. If I accidentally got the damn thing into Creative Picture Controls, and was cycling through Dream and Sunday and Dramatic and Melancholic and Toy, and couldn’t find my way out of it, I’d be sorry I even tried. Especially in a $2500 body. The comment above about Fuji X cameras sounds like it’s describing something I’d be happy with.

Yeah, it occurred to me after posting that I had kind of asked for it. I see what you did there.

And I did actually get Lyme Disease back when it was first becoming trendy. I got a beautiful whopper of a bullseye rash around it. Now, see, THAT would have made a great photo!

Hey, a big thank you to everybody who is saying that a DX format could be perfectly good for me if I’m not making posters or billboards. I’m not. So, I’ll give more serious thought to DX. In fact, my standard for comparison today is a cellphone camera (even if it’s one of the better ones). Tiny lens, tiny sensor, and not much money thrown at the camera design, as it’s not primarily a camera. So a sensor somewhat smaller than a 35 mm film frame, and a lens that weighs more than the whole cellphone, almost have to do better.

For that matter, I wasn’t seriously thinking about trying a digital medium format camera. I could compete with a currency shredding machine if I went there.

So, again, thanks to everybody who is pointing that out! I needed to hear it!

I bought an Fuji XT-30 because I had no interest in full frame and it most closely resembled my old FM-2 in terms of control. It was my third digital camera (Minolta A1, Nikon D90). I really love using it, and I love having all the controls at my finger tips.

Any modern camera will take fantastic pictures, so I think the look and feel is one of the most important aspects (unless you’re a professional wedding or sports photographer, for example). For example, the Sonys are fantastic, but all of their controls are buried in menus, which turned me off. Their top-rate autofocus wasn’t enough for me to go for that rather than all the buttons and dials on the Fuji.

I highly recommend a mirrorless camera like the Nikon Z line (APS-C or full frame), the Fuji X line, etc. Mirrorless cameras have room to put adapters on between old SLR lenses and the body, so I can shoot with my old manual Nikon lenses if I want to.

The Nikon Df is an interesting camera – it’s really meant to be a throwback, but it got mixed reviews.

Pretty much any modern camera will serve you fine: crop sensor, full frame, mirrorless.

I’m a professional photographer, and I work or have worked with all of the above. There’s nothing wrong with crop sensors. I still know pros who love the Nikon D500 and shoot with it as a main body. 21MP is more than enough for most things, and you can even blow that up to poster size. I have a 2.7MP print of Studs Terkel a friend of mine took on his D1 that I have printed up to 20x30 size that looks fine at normal viewing distances. Can you tell its rezzed up when you get close? Sure. But at a normal viewing distance – especially with the resizing technology available today like through Topaz A! – you can’t really tell. Don’t worry about megapixels. Don’t worry about crop vs full-frame so much.

The best camera is the one you have and the one you use. I’m in the Nikon ecosystem because that’s all I’ve ever used. Today I shoot with a mix of dSLR (2 Nikon D750s) and a mirrorless (Z6II). The things I like about mirrorless is that it’s completely silent if you need it to be, you can have a histogram in the viewfinder and review your images in the viewfinder to keep from “chimping” (looking at the images on the back of your camera to evaluate them), and you can see exactly what the camera sensor will record. Plus you can shoot using the LCD screen on the back without looking through the viewfinder if you prefer (which I personally do not.)

Play around with a few cameras if you can. As said above by me and others, any modern camera can take good photos, and which system you prefer will have to do with which feels most intuitive to you, which lenses you already have, and which just feels the best for you. They are all perfectly good for your typical photographer. Once you start pushing the camera to the extremes, then you might notice some difference between one brand and another, but most people are not shooting at the edge of the envelope.

I do portraiture, and they have everything I need. All I own are prime lenses.

The crop factor is 1.5x, so here are the lenses I use:

14mm f/2.8 (21mm)
35mm f/1.4 (52.5mm)
56mm f/1.2 (84mm)
90mm f/2 (135mm)

The 56 and 90mm lenses are my absolute favorite for portraiture. Even though the aperture of the 90 isn’t as wide as the 56, as it is a longer focal length the bokeh is on par, if not better, then the 56.
The physical size of these high quality lenses would surprise you. It’s worth going to a proper camera shop and seeing this gear in person.

Here’s the X-mount lens lineup: Lenses | FUJIFILM X Series & GFX – Global
They aren’t cheap–B&H has that 56mm currently listed for $999–but they are high quality metal lenses with great image quality.

Yeah, and at that focal length, I think f/2 is plenty open. I have an 85mm f/1.4 that I use on my full frame camera, and I don’t like it much more open than f/2. The depth of field is plenty shallow and the bokeh is buttery.

There are third party lenses for the X format that tend to be less expensive, and Sigma has just started making primes for Fuji X, so maybe that will help with the price as well.

To the OP, if you decide to stick with APS-C crop factor, I highly recommend the Fuji X mount – it’s really the only line that’s fully bought into that size. Nikon Z has both APS-C and full frame, but you can tell that their heart is in the full frame line.

I’m reading and seeing a lot of nice stuff about the Fujifilm cameras. Just looking at the layout of controls, I think the X-T30, the X-T4, and the X100V are all appealing (but I didn’t go diving into features or manuals yet). I found a nice product line guide here:

I’d have a nice bag with several prime lenses and a body for around $4000 or $5000. Very appealing indeed!

I need to make a decision whether to soldier on with my old horses or spend some cash—my most recent camera body was purchased in 2014. For what it’s worth…

I chose 4/3 and micro 4/3 many years ago for several reasons:

  1. You can use manual (“legacy”) lenses if you have an adapter. They’re like presets, which you probably remember since you mention Spiratone.
  2. They’re physically smaller cameras, easier to carry around
  3. You can get Olympus or Panasonic (Lumix).
  4. I’d read that many loved their OOC (out of camera) images better than other brands, and photoshop etc. wasn’t my idea of fun
  5. They’re big enough to still have a decent size sensor.
  6. But the smaller sensor works great on macro.
  7. With 2x crop factor, telephotos are plentiful (though super wide angles aren’t).
  8. I think it suited the types of pictures I wanted to take—let’s call them “Not fast action” and “likely to be printed to 11x14 max.”

Since then, few regrets. My Lumix seems much better on video and my Oly seems much better on stills. One other thing if you go that way is they’ve been in micro and mirrorless a long time so the lens selection and all that is great. Supposedly they’ve updated their autofocus. They’ll always be a smaller sensor but at some point I think, ‘so what?’

I have to say that I didn’t like focus by wire at first. It turns out that Sigma produced a lens that allowed good ol’ mechanical focusing and I have a copy.

I am totally jealous of Canon users who have this lens…(scroll to #6)

Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro Photo

A specialist manual-focus lens designed exclusively for macro shooting with
magnification 5x larger than life size to capture detail beyond the human eye.

If you want to stretch your money, I recommend checking used stuff at KEH.

If you want to dip your toe into the (expensive) waters, you could buy an X100V, or perhaps find a used X100F or X100T, and have fun. It’s a self-contained camera with a single fixed lens: 23mm f/2 (35mm).
The model naming is a bit odd: X100, X100S, X100T, X100F, X100V–the suffixes mean (S)econd, (T)hird, (F)ourth, and V for Five.

I have an XPro2 and a X100F, and when I am at an event, I carry both–the internal mechanisms are all but identical, and the fixed lens on the X100F is just as good as the interchangeable primes for the X cameras. At one point I carried an XT1 and an XPro1: the X-Pro series draws its roots from the original X100, with the hybrid optical viewfinder, while the XT series is more of a baby DSLR format. Since I like the rangefinder format with optical viewfinder, I kept with the XPro line.

One particularly nice feature that may or may not be up your alley: they have absolutely top-quality in-camera film simulations. These are serious simulations that are intended for real work. For example, if you like the saturated slide look, turn on Velvia.
Two of the more recent additions are quite popular and probably their best: Classic Chrome and Acros. I use Classic Chrome for just about everything, and when I want to do B&W photography I flip over to Acros.

Because of the quality of these simulations, the straight-out-of-camera JPEGs are impressive and stand on their own quite nicely. I set my cameras to RAW + JPEG, so I have the RAW file if I need it, but once I get the files into Lightroom I usually only need to grab one or two RAW files to fix lighting issues; the rest of the work is just cropping. Furthermore, if I see there is an issue, I’ll often use the in-camera processing to, for example, push or pull exposure a stop or two on the existing shot, rather than faff about with the RAW file in Lightroom.

One of the best features of the whole Fuji line is how frequently they update their firmware. The camera I bought a few years ago is not the same camera I have today–they are constantly teaching it new tricks and improving. That’s not something that can be said about many other products.

ETA: The Classic Chrome and Acros simulations require more processing power, so these are not available on the older cameras. If you are going for used gear, check to see if your model supports these–you will like them.

One thing I don’t see much of for ANY brand is macrophoto lenses (which at least used to be defined as giving magnifications greater than 1X, or, photographing areas smaller than the image sensor or film). These are different from “macro” lenses, which I think took their name from true macrophoto lenses in a sort of a marketing cheat. Here are two that I used to shoot with decades ago:

https://www.closeuphotography.com/bellows

I wonder if they’re just not a thing any more, or if it only requires looking harder.

They are significant in that they are optimized for the object being only a little more than one focal length away from the lens. Most camera lenses are optimized for the image being a little more than one focal length away. They are also significant in that their shape lets you get light onto the object much better than most camera lenses do if you mount them backwards. In other words, you don’t want what was the mounting ring crowding out light around the object.

The Canon I posted upthread goes to 5X.

I don’t see all the bellows etc. that were a thing in the 35mm days. I did shoot a few with reversing ring (a legacy 50mm on my legacy 80-200) but I don’t recall what I calculated to be the ratio.

Well, anything that used to work on those film cameras can probably work on any mirrorless with the right adapter.

Pausing so I can be shown how wrong I am.

As far as the XT-30 goes, I think the current version is the XT-30 II, but I don’t know what the differences are. The XT-4 is bigger and more expensive, but has built-in image stabilization, which could be helpful with close-up macro photography. I don’t miss having it, because the high ISO performance is so good.