Training Dogs To Attack......

…Concentration Camp Inmates.

God, I wish I were smarter and could post elsewhere, but I’m not and I cannot, so y’all are just gonna have to put up with me here, I reckon.

I saw this item on Channel 2 in Atlanta 2 nights ago, and it had to do with this elderly man being here in the USA apparently illegally because of what his job was in the German Army during WW2, and now, even though he has yet to be charged with anything, he and his wife face, what? deportation?

To where? Hell?

I am sorry, but where does it end?

Those of you who know me closely, know I am German-American (the son of a German mother and American soldier-father), so I have close ties to both countries, but I am hurting very badly here for this couple.

What do I know?

I know what I saw: The man on TV trying to explain what his job was, and his wife crying at his side.

As far as I could tell, this man is now in his late 70’s and was having a lot of trouble making sense to the interviewer and the cameras, so what I am asking here is the following: If he is here (in his thoughts) illegally and has known it all these years, then hasn’t he carried the guilt long enough?

And what I am further asking is where does it stop?

Does it stop with with the people who bred this dog, or does it fo go further back?

Does it go all all the way back to someone who had the idea that Jews are bad and need to be eradicated and so we need to breed a dog that will bite them should they try to escape?

And more importantly, did we be breed hatred into this animal?

Help me out, here. Y’all are SO much smarter than I am.

All I can see is this little lady stroking her husband’s chin and him trying to explain and not having been charged with anything.

And I can see me coming here in 1960 and trying to learn to speak like y’all out of a German-American Dictionary, so I have a littlle sympathy.

Am I making sense?

Thanks

Q

I noticed this story on the front page of our Atlanta paper, but I haven’t been following it, so my opinions are formed on very few facts, but here it is: the media is ruining this man’s life to sell papers and get ratings.

You mean this guy? Better details found here.

He voluntarily joined the SS and was presonally a attack dog handler at a concetration camp. Fuck him. He’s a liar and scum.

The United States has a statute of limitations on many crimes. Murder has never been one of them.

This guy participated in the murder of thousands.

I have have no issue with Germans. I have issue with Nazis and in particular Nazis who participated in the Death Camps. How many hundreds or thousands suffered vicious maulings or death via his attack dogs? And I am supposed to feel badly for him?

Old or not he has it coming.

Why should we as a nation let it go and cut him some slack? Because he is elderly? How many elderly Jews died because of him and others like him? Did he cut them any slack?

I have seen how easy it is for people to become influenced to the point of brainwashing and he may have been one of those who wouldn’t have hurt a fly under normal circumstances but was then thrust into the hell that was WWI and WWII, causing him to be more open to any solution to the poverty and war that had ravaged his family and nation. If that is the case he may indeed feel extreme guilt about his actions. I don’t doubt that this is a possibility. But no matter what reason he had he chose to participate in the largest genocide in history. He purposely killed people for no reason other than their religion/race. He is lucky all he is being threatened with is deportation.

Frankly… not quite. Is this about dogs, concentration camps, deportation of Nazis? Some of your comments seem disjointed, and I’m not entirely sure what you’re asking.

Germany, most likely. If his wife is here legally, she can stay- but he is indeed facing deportation to Germany. Or possibly Israel.

There is no “in his thoughts” here- he is here illegally. Per Stuffy’s second link, Henss lied about his concentration camp service. He knowingly defrauded the government, and had 52 years to correct his lie. He chose not to, which implies to me that the guilt can’t be too much to bear.

What dog? The dog that’s been dead for the better part of half a century? Are you arguing that we should punish the people who provided guard dogs to the camps? If such people are found, and found to have knowingly raised, trained, and provided guard dogs to the SS for use in the camps, then yes, they should be punished. If they are found to have been simply breeders of a certain type of dog that was purchased and then used for the camps without the breeder’s knowledge, then no- no more than a Humane Society should be held responsible if a dog they adopted out is trained as an attack dog and kills someone.

Um, yes. Yes, it does go back to those people. But again, you’re clouding the issue. The wrongdoing here is simple:

  • Henss volunteered for duty in the Waffen SS, and eventually became an attack dog instructor at the camps.

  • Documents apparently exist that show Henss personally guarded prisoners and labor details. One can infer that he participated in the killing of prisoners as a result of his employment.

  • Henss came to the US in 1955, intentionally concealed his history, and has lived here ever since.

  • Authorities have caught up with him and want to see him deported and held responsible for his actions.

The dogs are nothing but tools that Henss used to carry out his murders for him. They are no more to blame than the guns/knives/gas/ovens that others used. They didn’t “breed a dog to bite” potential escapees; they trained an animal to behave a certain way, and it did. It was the man behind the dog that was responsible for giving the order to attack, and regardless of how frail/confused/whatever he is now, he needs to be held accountable.

This is where I am completely lost. First, animals don’t “hate” in the way you appear to be using the word. Secondly, as I mentioned earlier, those dogs have been dead for longer than most of us have been alive. Are you asking if all modern-day GSDs have an innate hatred of Jews because some of their fellow breed members were used as attack dogs at concentration camps? The idea of such a thing is beyond preposterous, and I honestly would think that someone personally involved in animal rights would know differently.

Or are you asking if the dogs used at the camps hated Jews? That idea is also ridiculous- how would they know, other than “That stringy-looking guy over there in the striped outfit”? Do K-9s “hate” criminals? Of course not. They “attack” (quotes intentional) whomever their handler points them at. Otherwise it would be hell trying to take them for a walk off-duty. The dogs used at the camps attacked anyone their handler pointed them at, and they did it because 1) they had been trained to, and 2) they had the inherent dog desire to please their owner by doing a good job.

Even the most heinous killer had, at some point in their life, someone who loved them. I grew up with Aleksandras Lileikis. Went to church with him, my brother cut his lawn, we went trick-or-treating to his house. He was a nice guy. That doesn’t mean I didn’t become ill when I heard the news of who he really was, or that I didn’t rejoice when I heard he’d been deported.

Rosenbaum doesn’t typically make public statements unless he has the documentation to back him up- he learned that lesson with Lileikis. Henss may not be officially charged with anything, but that may have more to do with the slowness of this whole process. If the documentation is correct, Henss is a killer, pure and simple, and should be sent back to be tried.

I would be very curious to know what Henns’ “explanation” was. :rolleyes:

“Disjointed”?

Really?

I thought I was just asking a question. Guess I shouldn’t have added “Am I making sense” at the bottom. :slight_smile:

Okay. I guess I can see where the guy had a choice. He didn’t have to join the SS, and once he did, he became obligated to honor his oath, and so he has more to answer for than just training attack dogs. He also has to answer for knowing what he did was wrong and coming here illegally.

And also, does this person now know what he is being accused of? From what I saw on the news, he wasn’t making much sense himself.

But my point is, if this guy is prosecuted, then there are probably hundreds of others we need to go after as well.

Thanks for your insights.

Q

I’m not trying to be snarky, but honestly… take another look at your OP, which may have been written “in the heat of the moment.” First, it’s title is misleading if your “point is” that there are other fish to fry than Henss. You then ask about deportation, who should ultimately be blamed, where does “it” stop… and then (tying back into your title) ask if we bred hate into an animal. That’s why I thought it was a bit disjointed. YMMV.

I have not seen the interview you refer to, but two recent articles state that he admitted his guard service to authorities in March. I would doubt that anyone who had served as a camp officer, unless they are well and truly addled, doesn’t know what happens when OSI catches up with you. The only reason the case has come to light at this point is the deportation order was officially filed, which would lead me to believe that between March and October he was likely made aware of what he would be charged with.

He also, of course, denies any wrongdoing or knowledge of “what they would do with the people, especially the Jews.” Now, how he managed to not know what “they” (whoever “they” are- the dogs, the officers, the SS) were doing with the Jews when he worked as a camp/labor guard, I don’t know. :rolleyes:

Of course there are. Almost every article linked so far has mentioned that since OSI started, they’ve caught 136 people and stopped another 180 from entering the US. They spent every day looking for war criminals… it’s not like now that they’ve caught Henss they’re suddenly going to rest on their laurels, and I would imagine they would label Henss as a fairly small catch.*

I am sympathetic to your empathy and confusion over this issue, but I personally feel it’s a bit misplaced.
[sub]not that any catch in this situation is a small one[/sub]

Oops.

Quasimodem I speak fluent nutter and even I had a hard time putting together what you were attempting to get across/question in your OP.

  1. If this guy hid his CC service, he knew it was wrong, as such, he needs to face his past, no matter what he knows or doesn’t know today.

  2. If he’s here illegally, just like EVERY OTHER ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT, he needs to go back where he came from, and attempt to re-enter legally.

  3. The dog thing just makes me dizzy.