Sorry, no link to this article yet. It’s the latest one.
I just can’t see that much of any tactile sense would be left in a glans after so much cutting up of intervening tissue. I’ll bet the guys getting the operation are exaggerating what they feel afterwards. If I even cut my finger a little deeply, all the flesh on the far side of the cut is numb for years. What are the chances?
You mean transsexuals who have had the sex reassignment surgery, ne? I have read that in the hands of a competent and experienced surgeon, a lot (but not all) sensation can be preserved. I’m sure that mileage may vary per individual, and that the anatomical differences probably complicate things. Of course, there is debate whether a surgical “cure” is the best way to treat transsexualism, but that’s a whole 'nother thread.
There is some very good and detailed info on this, and the results of surgical procedures of various doctors (including lots of pictures), that can be found at Dr. Anne Lawrences’ website.
Well the column is up: Can transsexuals have orgasm after sex reassignment surgery?
Cecil says that whilst F-M operations are or were less common, the chap he talked to
Any more general numbers on this?
picmr
I read Cecil’s column and when he described the surgery, I crossed my legs real hard.
As someone who knows (or used to know) two people who have gone through M-to-F sex-reassignment surgery, let me just say that the famous Dr. Biber is getting kinda old. The two big-name sex reassignment surgeons in the U.S. today are Dr. Meltzer and Dr. Shrang.
Both Shrang and Meltzer use the sensate pedicled neoclitoroplasty technique that Cecil described, but Meltzer’s work has the additional benefit that his results look real. A Meltzer M-to-F patient can fool a gynecologist.
Note also that after the main surgery is healed, the new vagina is still incomplete. It lacks labia minora. It needs a second, less invasive operation called a labiaplasty to let the new woman earn her wings, so to speak.
Not to be too harsh, tracer, but on what do you base the statement that the results of the surgeries can ‘fool a gynecologist’? How close an inspection? Anecdotal evidence not considered relevant; after all it was anecdotal evidence that Cecil was considering unreliable to support the claims of Dr. Biber.
[[A Meltzer M-to-F patient can fool a gynecologist.]]
Hm. What happens when the doc probes the ovaries for tumors? I doubt this very much. But I’m still getting over the OP’s screen name. Wonder if there’s an operation for that…
DSYoungEsq wrote:
Ah, but this anecdotal evidence was provided by someone who was planning to undergo sex-reassignment surgery herself, so it must be true! (Of course, she was the same person who told me her reading speed increased to 64,000 words per minute after the “right” kind of speed-reading course. And even she admitted that a gynecologist would think that a Meltzer patient had at least had a hysterectomy, if not even more radical surgery. But, darn it, I’ve dated two women who turned out to be sex-change hermaphrodites, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to let those two disappointing experiences go to waste – so I’m gonna go around claiming that those relationships makes me an “expert” on sex-reassignment surgery.)
Look at the pictures of some very successful surgeries on the link I posted earlier. Fool a gynecologist? No. Fool anyone else? Some of them could IMO.
…what’s the guy in the picture doing in his pants pocket?
jab1: pocket poker?
I’ve been involved with a couple of transsexuals in my lifetime and I have asked them out of curiosity. It’s a very difficult question to bring up, can you still have an orgasm - it always seems to come out like ‘Was it good for you?’
When I asked they all said that sex was great and preferable to what it was before. The surgery they had was the construction of a vagina from their old genitalia and the nerves were still there. Also, the hormones do something to them which increases sensitivity in the region. In any event, all of the ones that I’ve been with are either very, very good at faking or are definitely getting something out of it. One told me that it was infinitely better than when she was a man, she could actually have multiple orgasms as a female and the mysterious ‘continuous orgasm’ where it goes on for ages. As a male who is intending to stay as a male I guess I’ll never know what it’s like … damn.
I’m not a transsexual, but I have read the literature and talked with several.
The whole point is NOT that you’ve changed sex and can how experience orgasms in a totally different way, the point is that for whatever reason, people with a desire to change their sex believe that they should have been born in a body that’s the opposite sex of what they are born with.
They want to live life as completely and fully as possible as the opposite sex. This is simply not dressing up like the opposite sex, this is being the opposite sex as much as possible.
That’s the reasoning and logic they give.
[[They want to live life as completely and fully as possible as the opposite sex. This is simply not dressing up like the opposite sex, this is being the opposite sex as much as possible. ]]
I’m going to try to state my personal experience here without being insensitive. I am a naturally born heterosexual female and I have met and gotten to know several M ->F transsexuals. Not a huge sample, but still. Without exception the ones I’ve known have intelligence and a great sense of humor .They are also generally into the stereotypic aspects of the female persona that I don’t identify with. I wear jeans and tee shirts much of the time and am fairly strong and athletic. The majority of transsexuals I have known are vain and into shopping and clothes, proud of being weak and coy and seen as a sex objects by all (I’m more selective in this last one). Some of them revel in being manipulative and bitchy, baby-talking, gossipy and shallow. I guess a lot of attention to hair and make up would make sense, to compensate for the possibly remaining male visuals. But the rest of it… well, I’m personally slightly offended by it. There is no doubt that these are not people who identify themselves as men. I just have a little trouble identifying with them as “sisters.” Their experience is NOT the same as mine, growing up female. Their life experience is definitely different from most other males and females, though. One of these girls refused to help me carry boxes from my car into a building the other day, saying, “my lifting days are over, girlfriend!” Gimme a break.
>>I’m going to try to state my personal experience here without being insensitive.<<
Well, I’m going to state my personal experience while being as insensitive and caustic as I can, if you don’t mind.
>> I am a naturally born heterosexual female<<
I am a rather unnaturally born bisexual female. Nice to meet you.
>> and I have met and gotten to know several M ->F transsexuals. Not a huge sample, but still. Without exception the ones I’ve known have intelligence and a great sense of humor .<<
That’s to be expected. Unintelligent transexuals never really figure it out. And if you’re a transexual without a good sense of humor, you’ve probably slit your wrists by now.
>>They are also generally into the stereotypic aspects of the female persona that I don’t identify with.<<
Well, if you think about it, the average woman, if born and raised as a man, would probably not be so uncomfortable with her life as to require radical alterations up to and including major surgery. It’s only the ones who identify very strongly with attributes that aren’t associated (to them, at the least) with the male condition that would go to such lengths.
That said, it’s not a very good sample group. Keep in mind that your sample is, for the most part, self selecting. The case with most transexuals is this: if they don’t want you to know, you’re probably not going to know. A couple times now I’ve been torn between laughing and crying when someone (who has no idea that I’m trans) starts a sentence with ‘Well, all the transexuals I’ve ever known have…’ Consider the possibility that your sample group is much more abbreviated than you think.
>> I wear jeans and tee shirts much of the time and am fairly strong and athletic. The majority of transsexuals I have known are vain and into shopping and clothes, proud of being weak and coy and seen as a sex objects by all (I’m more selective in this last one).<<
Oh, now thems are fightin words, varmint.
As long as we’re using the first person singular here: I wear jeans (shorts in the summer) and t-shirts almost all the time, I walk or run everywhere I go, and would still be studying martial arts if I had the time to spare from school and work. I last shopped at a Bell’s Outlet about a month ago, for t-shirts. I rarely wear make-up, and if anyone sees me as a sex object… well don’t blame me for that. Indeed, that character fits most of the M2Fs that I know.
So, since we’ve got you beat in all of those charactaristics, do we get to stare down our noses at you, now? It’s only fair, after all.
>> Some of them revel in being manipulative and bitchy, baby-talking, gossipy and shallow.<<
Well, I revel in being manipulative, but I really believe that everyone deserves a hobby.
>> I guess a lot of attention to hair and make up would make sense, to compensate for the possibly remaining male visuals.<<
Bah. Shower, dress, and go.
>> But the rest of it… well, I’m personally slightly offended by it.<<
I would hope, then, that you are equally offended by nontranssexual women who exhibit these qualities. Personally, very little of it offends me, as long as it doesn’t physically or mentally harm anyone beyond the twink who exhibits it. I learned early on, as you might imagine, that no one has eminent domain over what is and is not ‘female’.
>>There is no doubt that these are not people who identify themselves as men. I just have a little trouble identifying with them as “sisters.”<<
I hope you don’t feel at all obliged to feel that way.
>> Their experience is NOT the same as mine, growing up female.<<
Which is a disability and a trajedy, and hardly something that should be used as a bludgeon.
>> Their life experience is definitely different from most other males and females, though. One of these girls refused to help me carry boxes from my car into a building the other day, saying, “my lifting days are over, girlfriend!” Gimme a break.<<
Eh. People suck, ya know?
Uh-oh. I’ll stand back here, out of range. With my pugs.
Hi, ChimericMouse, and welcome to the Board.
Your story sounds like it could be interesting, like that of dixiechiq. Would you mind posting over in MPSIMS and telling your story there for us? You don’t have to be “insensitive and caustic” either, dear, just tell it in a nice way?
Only if you want to, of course.
Una
Nice to meet you, Mouse! And I mean that.
You were responding to my post here, so I don’t think you need to switch forums (fora).
As for the rest of it:
[[It’s only the ones who identify very strongly with attributes that aren’t associated (to them, at the least) with the male condition that would go to such lengths.]]
But my point was that these attributes aren’t associated with me, either. Though I agree with what you’re saying here.
[[I would hope, then, that you are equally offended by nontranssexual women who exhibit these qualities. Personally, very little of it offends me, as long as it doesn’t physically or mentally harm anyone beyond the twink who exhibits it. I learned early on, as you might imagine, that no one has eminent domain over what is and is not ‘female’.]]
Absolutamente. And I do tire of this “characterization” of the female persona… Maybe like most people don’t like being stereotyped. But you’re right - to each her own.
[[That said, it’s not a very good sample group. Keep in mind that your sample is, for the most part, self selecting. The case with most transexuals is this: if they don’t want you to know, you’re probably not going to know.]]
Actually this isn’t true. Because of the work I do, I meet a variety of transsexuals and I learn that they are whether they’re “out” to others about it or not.
Me: [[Their experience is NOT the same as mine, growing up female.]]
[[Which is a disability and a trajedy, and hardly something that should be used as a bludgeon.]]
I don’t see it as a disability or tragedy in the least!
And hey, at least we’re not into pugs…
BTW - I wasn’t trying to insinuate that she switch forums. I just wanted to hear more about her experiences, that’s all.