Sorry for the recent deluge of Trek threads but after having a discussion with another online friend about the Treaty of Algeron and the Federation giving up rights to using Cloaking Devices, I got to thinking: Why is it that only the Klingons and Romulans use them? Why don’t the Cardassians, Ferengi, Pakleds, Borg, and other species that know of the damned thing don’t use when it gives such obvious tactical advantages?
At least the Federation has an excuse in that their hands are tied by a treaty. What’re the other powers’ excuses?
Because the Trek writers and producers are untalented hacks that don’t realize that in a relatively open galactic society, technology will trade hands pretty readily over the course of a century or two, and soon after one guy gets a cloaking device, EVERYONE will have them.
They also don’t realize that the ST cloaking devices should be pretty easy to counter, if only by tracking the emissions that each ship gives off…
…except that the whole point of the cloaking device is that it regulates all emissions so that they fall to such negligible amounts that they’re practically undetectable to everything but the most sensitive sensors looking specifically for such emissions.
I’m with SPOOFE. The more I watch Star Trek the more I realize how incredibly divorced from any type of realism it is. I know, someone will read that last sentence and go “well, duh!” but think about it. Most other genres are lauded for realism. How is it that Science Fiction went from plausibly predicting the future in some cases (Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, Isaac Asimov) to ignoring virtually every law of physics?
To try to prevent this hijack from becoming the main focus of the thread, I’ll try to remind anyone reading this that this is about the use of the cloaking device, not its science.
I know the cloak is impossible to use but according to modern science, so is the warp drive and I really don’t care if either is magical or not. I just want to see what everyone believes may be the cause of the Romulans and Klingons being the sole superpowers with them.
What happens to a closed system that keeps building up heat?
Kaboom.
Those ships had anti-matter reactors. If they didn’t dump as much heat as they generated, they’d turn everyone and everything inside into roast redshirt. You’re basically suggesting that they find a way to stow a nuclear bomb’s-worth of heat every second or so.
Nah.
Trek’s use of “science” is imbecilic. I know you think that’s a hijack, but that’s really the answer to your question: “Because they didn’t think about it much.”
Reread my OP and tell me where I mentioned the science involved in the use of the cloak; you’ll notice I didn’t.
If you want your own thread about the idiocies of Trek and the awesomeness of Star Wars, feel free to start it but I’d appreciate it if you actually answered the questions asked instead of hurling insults.
Maybe it’s just to technically demanding. It’s one thing to build a cloaking device but maybe it’s just to difficult to produce and maintain in large numbers.
But I don’t see why the Ferengi would want cloaking devices. They were never really characterized as a combative race. I know there are exceptions to that, but generally I think it’s safe to say they were purely profit-motivated. Keeping that in mind, maybe the Nagus didn’t think it was cost-effective to install them on FA ships?
As far as the Pakleds are concerned, I would have just assumed that they were too dumb…
I really don’t see where SPOOFE intentionally insulted you. His point (with which I still agree) was that you are asking for logic to be applied to a show that is entirely illogical. This is impossible, and it makes answering your question impossible.
Sure they were. In the opening episodes of TNG, the Ferengi are characterized as bloodthirsty, greedy warmongers with ships that posed a significant threat to the pride of the Federation fleet.
Sheesh, y’all, be nice to the poor guy’s thread. Trek is stupid and dumb and makes no sense, but half the fun is trying to think of ways that it could possibly make a sort of sense, I think.
The “hard to upkeep” idea sounds kind of likely to me. I’m not an expert on Trek, but I saw all of TNG and most of DS9… Maybe the Ferengi military hasn’t been able to pitch the idea to the Nagus in a way that sounded profitable enough.
Or maybe only a very small handful of Ferengi ships can afford to have the cloaking device, and they just kind of quietly keep that fact to themselves. It seems like it sure would be more effective that way…
The Ferengi also have an impressive military with the D’Kora class Marauder being the equivalent of a Galaxy Class starship so I see no reason why they wouldn’t want them, especially considering how sneaky and skittish they are.
The Pakleds, on the other hand, would just want anything to make them stronger although I admit I threw them in there for lack of another power. I suppose I could have used the Gorn or Tholians but neither is hardly ever mentioned post TOS.
He didn’t insult me personally but he did call the franchise imbecilic and by implication, all its fans. I typically don’t mind people doing this despite its obnoxiousness but when people make it a habit like **SPOOFE ** has in the fifteen months I’ve been here, it gets a little trying.
Looking over this thread, I don’t see any statements that would make me a hypocrite so I have no idea what it is you’re talking about.
And you didn’t have to mention Star Wars. I’ve posted here long enough and have hundreds of ST and SW threads; I’m well aware of your biases.
Probably half the trick of developing a technology is knowing it is possible. The 1st person doesn’t really know. Once others know it exists they will beat on it until it works.
There is a spectrum from fantasy to hard sci-fi. Different stories are in different places on the spectrum. If you choose to get “too serious” you can destroy almost any story. One of the worst of ST:TNG is where a second Will Ryker was created. Supposedly the transporter beam reflected off a field in the atmosphere and a Ryker appeared on the ship and one back on the planet. The energy of one human body goes in and the energy of two human bodies come out. GREAT PHYSICS!!!
It made for an interesting story, you just have to willfully suspend your Vulcan component.
No, no, no no no. He called the franchise’s use of science stupid. The franchise. Not you. You are not Star Trek, you are not Gene Roddenberry.
Guess what? I like Star Trek, but I also agree that the writers tend to ignore little things like common sense and logic. Does that mean I’m calling myself an idiot? No, it doesn’t.
There is no implication other than the one you’re creating.
Reading back over it, I do see that he called the science imbecilic and not the show. I am mistaken there and do apologize for that but did you see the part where I said he did not insult me personally? I never implied otherwise.
And to go one further, I agree with you and him that the science used is lax and oftentimes non-existant as evidenced by a number of my posts in other threads but that still doesn’t change the fact that his posts had very little to do with the questions asked in the OP and were unnecessary highjacks.
It would likely be more akin to the various powers on Earth (the real one) using their military in different ways.
WWII Soviet and German air forces, for instance, were closely tied to the ground army’s they supported. Hence, no long range bobmers for Gemany and some of the most useful ever multi-purpose low altitude support attack planes for the Soviets.
America, on the other hand, had strategic bobmers and ultra long range aircraft designed for air to air combat over hostile territory.
Same way with the navies. The Americans developed massive (and fast) carrier attack groups and a submarine force that forged out on its own (from what I’ve read). The Germans developed wolfpack type of submarine forces and abandoned their surface fleet operations.
So, I would tie it to differing military strategies and objectives and not on whether or not they could actually build cloaks.
