I think octopus is an example of how Trump ruins everything and everyone. He used to be a relatively reasonable conservative poster, actually responding to and making arguments with real arguments of his own! Not useless, lazy, drive by nonsense, but actual arguments with real effort involved! Sounds crazy, but we used to have a lot of good discussions.
But since Trump, and especially in the last year or two, he’s appeared unable to accept that maybe conservatives in the US are largely responsible for the things going wrong. And so he’s doubled and tripled and more down that the real villains are the liberals, and has gone to increasingly convoluted and illogical lengths to explain how the liberals are to blame, even when the vast majority of the violence is quite explicitly engineered by Trump supporters or even the Trump administration itself.
It’s sad but perhaps not terribly surprising how so few conservatives have taken the Stuart Stevens (or IIRC SenorBeef, Martin Hyde and a few others) route – identify that, truly, the GOP and even the wider conservative movement is largely responsible for Trump, for the coarsening of discourse, for the increase in vitriol and even violence, and that the wider conservative movement and the GOP in general has abandoned all pretenses of honor, decency, patriotism, etc., by continuing to support Trump, all in the name of pissing off liberals. It’s a shame octopus has brought himself so low alongside them. Maybe one day he’ll realize all this.
All 4,000+ were actually murdered or were some of those homicides legal? I do appreciate the cites and analysis but I would argue that the set of those shot by the police and the set of those who have an average economic value of $57/hr aren’t the same.
And I would counter that no matter how you analyze the figures, you cannot reduce $23 billion to ‘10s of millions’ any way.
It’s easily derived that 1 average person above generates an average of $3 million of productivity from 35-65. If you think this # is incorrect, i.e., that police shoot people with lower than average productivity numbers (say, $20/hour instead of $57), that still leaves one at $1,000,000 per life, or $4.3 billion, still easily dwarfing the mere $10s of millions you complained about.
Would also like to note that in these times of the Trump Depression, construction firms appreciate the rebuilding business. Nothing says societal stability like fat government contracts! Just ask WW2 and postwar America!
They deserve what they are worth in a free market for a free exchange of labor for a wage. Since I’m not the price setter at Gosplan I wouldn’t be able to give a precise value.
It is a number which is easily derived, as I’ve shown above. If you disagree with the numbers, that is reasonable, but to ignore my work with a ‘we’ll never know’ is personally insulting. Pick a number and make your case.
First assertion you made is each of the 4,000+ shot by police were murder. Is that true?
Since 2005 there have been 5 convicted of murder. Now, I’d agree that that probably doesn’t agree with the number that would be if we lived in a perfectly just universe but in a perfectly just universe we probably wouldn’t have crime.
Regardless of the number I come up with it would be just as imprecise as the number you came up with. The number could be negative. I fail to see the relevancy of the number in any case.
I think we can start with the proposition that 4,300+ is too many dead, regardless of how you slice it. However, eliminating 4,356 human beings merely because they didn’t meet the standard that Floyd and Taylor themselves did not ‘meet’ is completely irrational.
Stop playing games and discuss the value of the lives stuffed out by police. This is what conservatives like, right? A reduction of their argument into dollars and cents? You cited $10s of millions with, what I assume, honesty and a citation I’m assuming you can provide if called for, I did the same for my side.
Regardless, 10s of millions is chickenfeed compared to the dollar value of the lives killed by the police. I personally know individuals who could pay the rioters bill, there are, maybe, 40 people in the world who could afford the police’s.
Your argument is fallacious, it’s impossible to calculate the cost to society of the lost lives. Furthermore, we don’t know the cost to society or the gain to society if those lives would have not ended prematurely. Hell, I wonder what the cost of abortion is by your metric? Should we apply your numbers to all the lives ended prematurely in the womb?
How about the cost of driving? Or the cost of recreational narcotic use? Or the cost of risky sexual behaviors? A purely rational approach to human behavior is a dangerous road.
Now you are acting as if one can’t check that that was a reply to your stupid say so that the other side is responsible for the violence and the cost. It is really a baseless accusation, like blaming the Reichstag fire on the groups that opposed Hitler. With the difference that there is not even a trial made to find if your accusations are true… I guess the cosplayer fascist in the White House forgot that part, so his bullshit should be enough to satisfy you.
I said your “political fixations” or “politcal hangups.” I said nothing about ideas. You are the one who is once again making a thread about the protestors, when that wasn’t the topic. It does not even further your claim that “conservatives get a bad rap.” You keep goading people into that hijack.
Like, even now, I’m going to point out the obvious: not being able to put an accurate price on people doesn’t mean you can’t set a minimum. People are worth more than property. Trying to use the pricelessness of a human life to argue that people are less worthy is stupid. Heck, I’m pretty sure you know that, too.
This thread is about identifying trolls. By hijacking it, you’re only identifying yourself.
