True origins of RPG concepts

That’s where McLuhan comes in:

Campbell = Common socio/psycological origins of myth
+
McLuhan = take elements of those myths, whatever the origin*, out of context to allow a new story to be told by the players** with it’s own new meaning (or in many cases no meaning other than fun)

Combined they create the wonderful world of tabletop RPGs.

*: Reverse Campbell here: all sorts of source material, from ancient Hebrew fables to J.R.R. Tolkein, work together almost seamlessly.
**: By “players” I mean to include the DM/GM/Storyteller/Marshall/etc.

I don’t think she was inspired by myth; Frankenstein is more of a science fiction story. IIRC she heard about people experimenting with electricity and its effects on muscle movement.

Of course it’s a science fiction story. That doesn’t mean she couldn’t have multiple sources of inspiration.

Strangely, Gary Gygax professes not to be a major Tolkien fan. He apparently prefers the pulp fantasy of the '30s. The Tolkien elements were put in to appease the rest of fantasy fandom, many of whom believe that the genre begins and ends with LOTR.

You can find a lot of pulp elements in D&D.

The original Thief and Assassin classes come straight from Fritz Leiber’s Lankmar stories. So too does the old strickly human ability to Dual Class, that is, quit one class and begin another. The heroes of the Lankmar stories, Fafred and the Grey Mouser, both do this early in their careers. Wererats also owe their existance to this series, in particular, “Swords of Lankmar” (Skaven from Warhammer Fantasy were also inspired by this work).

The entire magic system comes from Jack Vance. The 1e DMG mentions this.

Many Lovecraft elements have already been mentioned, but D&D Ghouls also bear a striking resemblence to Mr. Pickman and associates. Lovecraft also has Ghasts, after which the D&D version was probably named. Gugs, however, are notably absent in D&D.

I’ve read that Conan was the original inspiration for the Fighter class, but the later Barbarian class was a direct rip of him. 1e Barbarians couldn’t use any magic (even items) at all until later levels, but they could summon a horde of warriors.

But D&D really is a giant cultural vaccuum that sucks up anything Gygax or later authors thought was cool.

Monks, for instance, came out the '70s TV show Kung-Fu.

Clerics were based of the historical Hospitalers, the first military branch of the Catholic Church. Originally, priests were forbidden from carrying swords (for fear of dying by them), so they got around that by carrying maces. Hospitalers were eventually allowed to carry arms, but only after the Templars started doing it.

Bards and Druids are from Celtic tradition. Both originally had a very strict rules and hierarchies. For example, there were a fixed number of upper level Druids in the world, and once you reached a certain level, you could go up any higher until a slot opened up.

Paladins come from Arthurian legend, though I think that comes from Charlemain.

Rangers come from English tradition. They were (and still are) the protectors of the land. Tolkien has not one but two groups of Rangers, which might be a more direct source. Fafred also displayed very Ranger-like abilities, and in fact is listed as one in my insanely old Dieties and Demigods (the one with the Cthulhu and Elric mythos in it).

Tiamat and Bahamut, the dragons, have named ripped out of Sumarian Myths (though the dragons are nothing like the mythological critters).

Coatls are the feathered serpents of Aztec legend, whilst Kirins are Japanese dragons (and beer). The Lamassu is a Babalonian invention, as is the Shedu (in fact, these names seemed to be interchangeble).

And there is much much more. As a kid I was always amazed when some of these would come up. D&D really was my introduction to a lot of this stuff, and I would always get excited when I encountered in the real world. Now, however, I can’t help by realize just how little original thought actually went into the first editions of D&D.

Pst, it’s Fafhrd. And the Hospitalers are the Templars. And military orders aren’t a branch of the Church nor have they ever been.

Unicorns.

THere’s also kenku and ogre-magi from Japanese myth. Kappa too.

The Hospitalers and the Templars were two seperate orders, formed at two seperate parts of Crusader Jerusalem (the Hospitalers at the Hospital of St. John, IIRC, and the Templars on the Temple Mount). And they weren’t so much a branch of the Church as a franchise.

He bet his life on a Moonwalking contest.

My favorite two were the rust monster and owlbear, inspired by some cheap plastic toys Gygax bought on a whim in…Hong Kong, I believe, or so the story goes. He basically needed some extra things to plunk down on the gaming table. I wonder if the toy manufacturer had a specific source for either, other than “my designer thinks these look cool”?

The millitary orders were recognized by the pope, their members took monastic vows, followed monastic rules, and in England, when Henry VIII siezed and dissolved the monastaries, he took the Hospitaler property too. So, how were they not “a branch of the church”?

No sir, thank you :slight_smile:

EGG has said – in old Dragon articles, methinks – that the inspiration for Clerics was Archbishop Turpin. Apparently for the tradition that Turpin didn’t use a sword in battle because as a priest he was forbidden to shed blood. Hence the odd weapon proficiencies of the original Cleric class, and the long-standing confusion over whether a “Lucern hammer” is a blunt weapon.

Paladins were lifted right out of the Song of Roland and the Matter of France where their exemplars are Charlemagne’s Peers. EGG probably got to that source via Pol Anderson’s Three Hearts and Three Lions (mentioned previously).

[in regards to Ki-Rin]

The Ki-Rin isn’t much of a unicorn. It’s generally regarded as more of a deer. It doesn’t really fall into easy taxonomy, though. And Legend of the Five Rings fused it back with the unicorn, of course, so the misnomer is perpetuating itself.

As is the “kenku.” The correct name is “tengu” (not to be confused with the SDMB member of the same name). “Kenku” as far as I can tell, was a misnomer for tengu dating back to the original Oriental Adventures, with no antecedents. It’s since been propagated elsewhere (e.g., in Legend of the Five Rings) but exists mainly as a D&Dism.

On the other hand, I have always been and still remain thoroughly convinced that the flumph originated in a particularly bad acid trip on the part of some denizen of Lake Geneva*…
*more likely to be some denizen of the Lakes District, given that the original Fiend Folio was based on submissions from British gamers…

You are right about Fafhrd.

But not so much on the Hospitallers. Templars were a different order, and both were officially recognized and sanctioned as monastic orders by the church, and were granted special sanctions by the Pope, who was their sole authority. The Templars were dissolved and persecuted by the Church in the ealy 14th Century, but the Hospitallers are still around, though in a much different form. They even have a website.

http://www.orderofmalta.org/

Unlike Templars, Hospitallers were healers, and far more closely conform to the D&D Clerical archtype.

However, I think Lightray is right about Archbishop Turpin.

I don’t think a kirin really translates into a Western archtype creature, but unicorn might be a closer fit than dragon. Kirin is definately a beer, though.

Incidentally, if you have questions for Gary Gygax, he’s got an ongoing thread at ENWorld where he answers various and sundry questions. He’s a good egg.

Daniel

I’m going to really date myself here, but in the original Greyhawk Supplement to D&D (the very first, three paper-bound booklet set, which probably came out before many of you young’uns were bornded), the hobgoblin is illustrated as a shaggy humanoid with a jack-o-lantern head and glowing eyes/mouth, which always seemed to me to be more consistent with English/Irish folktales. Then Monster Manual and AD&D came out, and hobgoblins were more like dog-headed orcs, which I never really agreed with.