I know that this a trying time for Democrats. Heck, it’s a trying time for all of us that think President Trump is unfit for office, which includes a lot of Republicans and even über conservatives. Think about it.
Anyway, I have an argument that you can use, even on your crazy Trump-supporting friends. Mr. Trump is a Democrat.
Think about it. Just 5 years ago he described himself as ‘very pro choice’. His children were registered Democrats before 2016.
Because he is not just amoral (sorry, but it’s true ) . He is also apolitical. Whatever is most convenient at the time. Again, think about it.
I have nothing against the man, because I don’t think he intends to be the way he is. But I think my argument is a good one. Because what Trump supporter wants to support a Democratic?
Trump has pinged around various political parties - he was a Democrat up until about 10-12 years ago, he was a Reform Party member for a few years before that, and before that he was a Republican. It’s true that he owes no allegiance to any party and goes with whichever suits his purposes.
That said, pretty much everything about him and what he stands for is anathema to the current Democratic Party even when you factor in any political expedience. He’s a bigoted oligarch who is openly willing to destroy the country as long as he personally gains by it. The Democrats would never claim him and didn’t really want him even before all this.
Conversely, no Trump supporter is going to pay any attention to claims that “Trump is really a Democrat” any more than they pay attention to his actual, well-supported corruption, criminality and treason. Even when Trump admits what he’s doing in front of the cameras they still come out and claim that he’s working for the average hardworking American. He pretty much is killing people on Fifth Avenue and still they love him. Nothing short of deprogramming will work on his hardcore base.
Not to mention that the “he’s not really a Republican” argument was used in 2016, mostly by his primary opponents but others as well. Didn’t matter then, don’t matter now.
Republicans only care about policy, the end result. And policy-wise he’s pretty Republican
Take your example about abortion. Regardless of how he feels about it personally, he knows most republicans are very pro-life. So he tells them what they want to hear. Someone asked him if women that have abortions should be criminally charged, and he said yes, because that’s what he thought they wanted to hear. That is, of course, not true, most pro-lifers want to see the doctor charged. So he was “corrected” about that.
Trump has spoken at March for Life (no other president has done that), and he’s come out against Planned Parenthood. This is obviously going to has an effect on policy. Plus he’s appointed a ton of judges who presumably are going to be on the conservative side in those areas. Judges (particularly SCOTUS judges) are a huge part of why Republicans voted for Trump. These judges are from a list from the Federalist Society, they are never going to be “secret democrats”, or at least, that’s their hope.
So your argument that he’s “really a democrat” on abortion issues is not going to sway any Republicans against him. What’s in his head doesn’t matter. What he does matters.
Exactly. Some of us thought he might not be so bad because he has no core convictions. Turns out, pandering to his base is his core conviction. He doesn’t care if abortion is legal or not, whether a wall is built or not, whether assault weapons are banned or not, or a thousand other things.
I would go even further and say that pandering to any base that would get him elected (or make him money) is his core conviction. It doesn’t matter who the base is, but the conservative white base works best for his persona. At this point, if it quacks like a duck …
Trying to use negative facts about trump to his supporters is useless, regardless of how well-documented or out in the open those facts are. I’ve tried at times. Here’s how these things usually go:
trump was a Democrat up until recently.
trump supporter: maybe so, but he saw the light and moved to the true path. Also, the Democrat party is much more radical commie liberal evil than it used to be.
trump is not a good christian. trump pays off porn stars that he had an affair with. trump cheated on all his wives. Etc., etc.,
trump supporter: sometimes god sends us a savior who is themselves flawed (Saint Augustine may be mentioned by the slightly more learned or religious trumpite). And who among us is perfect?
trump is indebted or somehow under the influence of russia, judging by tons of suspicious pro-Russia behavior on his part
trump supporter: that’s a hoax by the liberal left, who investigated trump X number of times and was completely exonerated by Mueller. Nobody is more tough on Russia than trump!
trump engaged in any number of unethical and downright criminal activities as a businessman before he became president.
trump supporter: He was a tough businessman, he did what he had to do, just like he doas as president now, he didn’t actually do anything illegal and whoever says he did is part of the lamestream lying liberal commie deep state radical left!
Pretth sure that 10 minutes after Trump leaves office, the “He was really a Democrat” line will suddenly get popular. Followed by “so all this shit he fucked up was done by the Democrats”.
Trump also had about the same anti-gun policies as moderate Democrats. Other than putting Gorsuch on the court, trump really hasnt been a friend to the NRA or gun owners.
Mind you, there are many Democrats with much more radical anti-gun policies.
Quite possible. My Trump-voting acquaintances already villainize George W. Bush, Jeb, the other Bushes, etc. in almost the same way they villainize George Soros and the Clintons - “globalists.” Trump could be quickly discarded and rejected as soon as he no longer serves a useful purpose to them.
Trump is not a Democrat or a Republican. Sure, he is currently riding on the Republican bus, but that isn’t what he is at his core. In 2016, he defeated the entire Republican AND Democrat parties to win the Presidency. Love him or hate him, you have to acknowledge that that is an impressive accomplishment. Unless, of course, you are consumed with TDS and capable of believing that a blithering idiot can defeat the entire political class on both sides of the aisle singlehandedly.
His message resonated with a lot of people who felt oppressed by the existence of a black Democrat in the White House. He was an alpha asshole who appealed to beta assholes who had been frustrated that all those PC libtards were keeping them from saying what they were really thinking (a.k.a. “telling it like it is”). He let them know he was going to hurt the people they wanted to hurt. That’s a strong appeal. Meanwhile, those who opposed him didn’t believe he was a serious threat, and others thought he would turn out to be more moderate in office or that his worst excesses would be curbed by his fellow Republicans and his advisors. They were wrong.
History is filled with plenty of examples of populist demagogues rising rapidly to power by appealing to the worst instincts of a sizeable chunk of the population and being underestimated by the rest. It never ends well for the people or their country.
The argument that “Trump is a Democrat” will make Trump supporters stop supporting.
#2 Has been thoroughly demolished already so I’ll leave it alone except to add that Trump’s biggest strength (to his most robust supporters) is that he is not afraid to own the Libs. His beliefs don’t come into it.
On whether or not Trump is really a democrat:
I don’t think Trump has beliefs like normal people do. I mean, maybe he does but they are not important to him. While the rest of us might give some consideration to whether a statement we make is true or false, I don’t think Trump bothers himself with such niceties. I think Trump will speak the statements that result in the largest benefit to Trump regardless of their truth.
In the past he has said things that a Democrat might say but that’s not at all indicative of his beliefs. He might even support (and often does support) two opposite ideas in the same sentence — his campaign statements on healthcare for example. Everyone is able to use their confirmation bias to pick out the bits they agree with and ignore the rest. Trump is the candidate for everyone who hears what they want to hear.
American politics is tribal now. Trump declared for the Red Tribe and that’s all that matters. Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal doesn’t matter any more.
I think there is a more profound question to be asked here though. Given that Trump could just as easily have been a Democrat as a Republican candidate for president (like an opportunistic infection, he chose the most diseased party to infect)…
Had Trump had he chose to run for the Democrats, would you have voted for him?
My answer is a clear no.
I’ve never voted for a Republican or a Tory (I’m currently living in the UK) in any election but if Trump were running for President for the Democrats against any of these candidates — Reagan, Bush I, Dole, Bush II, McCain, Romney, Bush III, Kasich, Rubio, Christie, Fiorina, Paul, Huckabee — I would have voted for the Republican because Trump is simply dangerous for democracy regardless of what promises he makes at his rallies.
I don’t believe he has any core beliefs, other than racism, that would align him with either party. He chose to run as a Republican because he knew he could appeal to its dark racist base. If you search for a conviction of his other than racism you’re going to be looking for a while.
) . He is also apolitical. Whatever is most convenient at the time. Again, think about it.