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Obviously, I can’t speak for others, but the question of whether Russia won Trump the election or not is not really a big concern. And even if we determined that they did, it has no bearing. It’s not like it puts Clinton in, and very few people wanted Clinton as President either.
The concern with Russia is the question of whether the leader of the nation is working with the interests of his country at heart. If he was a known money launderer to the Russians, if he was videoed participating in kinky acts by Russia, if he is in debt to Russia, if he offered the Ukraine to Russia in return for campaign help, if he simply has business interests that are tied to Russia, these are all things where he can be either straight up blackmailed or at least will not be able to be relied on to act in the interest of the people who elected him.
That is the worry.
And when you see him go to the Ukraine, come back talking about how horrible the situation is there for the Ukrainians and how he wants to help them, then suddenly 48 hours later he goes on an angry rant about how “America kills people too!” and rejects aiding the Ukraine, and there’s no obviously reason for that shift, no reason to expect anyone in Washington to advice him to go that direction…then you have to worry. The first thing the man did in office was reduce the sanctions on Russia. As of yet, last I heard, his cabinet is still refusing to enforce the increased sanctions that congress slapped on them.
Personally, I want my President to be loyal to his country. And if Mueller shows that the Russians don’t have anything on Trump, then I’ll be happy.
I don’t care if Russia helped to get Trump the job. If you care, then you’re wrong. There’s more issues at stake than that. The fact that the Presidential election has become purely a popularity contest is, and the job effectively the same as the Galactic President - a person elected to distract from the actual goings-on of government - is indeed one such issue. That foreign governments can influence the election through the internet is, also, an issue. Neither of those is the issue at stake in this thread (at least not for me).
Personally, I was not aware that anyone anywhere was prohibited from helping anyone anywhere win an election. I suppose there alot of naive people around who just assume our “bedrock american democracy” is somehow sacrosanct in this respect.
Huh. Never occurred to you that having a foreign adversary assist a Presidential candidate might be a bad thing?
Lots of things you consider bad might be good for somebody else.
Yeah, I’m a bit worried I may not be focusing the real issue here myself. 
You’d have to outline more precisely exactly how adversarial Russia is to the USA at this time in history. We’re not at war and there is alot of mutual cooperation in the military and economic spheres. Where are you going with this line of thinking? Do you think the Russians really want anything of substance to do with this big broiling pile of ethnic, social and political shit we have on our hands?
Well, would that not be the whole point? For the Russian plutocracy, the US is the biggest impediment to their own advancement. Jamming the gears of the US gives them more weight in the world. So, what they would want of substance would be the desubstantiation of that darn American problem child.
So the U.S.-Russian game of gear grinding goes on. Why is this so hard to understand?
You probably understand this, but that was my point. None of the actions of Trump or the people in his orbit are the actions of people who are totally innocent. But they do seem to have the confidence of people that believe they did nothing wrong.
What if they viewed Billary more favorably and she won the election? Maybe we’d be doing the same thing in a role reversal? Here’s another example where she could bitterly exclaim “what difference does it make!”
I think that we nominated and elected a businessman who, with his advisors and family, ran his campaign (and government) the only way they knew - like a business. Only now are they starting to realize that marginally legal but ethically gray activities accepted in their business world don’t necessarily translate to the political and governing arenas.
If they believe they did nothing wrong, why have they all repeatedly lied, including under oath, about it? Why would Kushner was a back-door line of communication through the Russian Embassy? Why would Trump fire Comey specifically to stop the investigation?
There appear to be a lot of things that you’re not aware of.
…hmmm - that U.S. Federal Election Commission rules apply to, er… Russians? :smack:
Yes. It’s unlikely that anyone in Russia would be extradited to the US for violating our laws, but anyone in the US or a friendly nation could end up being brought in and prosecuted. Other nations don’t want their elections being fiddled with either, so I’d judge it highly likely that an international warrant for a particular Russian oligarch would be granted in countries like France, the UK, Germany, etc. There’s also section (g) of the law, which makes it illegal for Americans to receive such aid.
Would knowingly, unwittingly, under duress or some other characterization matter? Legally, I mean.
Yes, that’s certainly one of the many things that you’re unaware of.
The Act and Commission regulations include a broad prohibition on foreign national activity in connection with elections in the United States. 52 U.S.C. § 30121 and generally, 11 CFR 110.20.
Good luck with that! You are seriously delusional if think there’s a Russian social media campaign operative anywhere on the planet, much less those potentially vulnerable home-based members who give a flying fuck about U.S. Election Law, do you?
One word that sums it all up. It is like they are like, what, artistical?