Trump absolutely can not let this investigation go forward. Obviously it is a rocky path with uncertain outcomes to fire Mueller, pardon everyone, and try to stop the investigation, but it’s an even rockier path to allow Mueller to discover the decades of financial (and other) crimes that are, with certainty, in Trump’s past.
Is there any doubt that we are headed for something very messy at this point?
Can our resident Legal Beagles and fascists tell us how this is okay and he won’t do it and when he does it’s legal and not what it looks like and oh BTW in a specially crafted hypothetical Hillary would do it, too.
There’s arguably never been anything more important in american democracy than this and some want to play partisan politics. For what? In what ways is Trump advancing the conservative agenda? Every statement and policy decision can ultimately be traced to a desire to enrich himself and family and move America towards authoritarianism.
It’s all fake news and there’s nothing to it and it’s all Hillary being spiteful about losing. So there.
Anyone who argues any of this is okay, are you really going to be fine when a socialist candidate courts socialist/communist countries in the upcoming election over the American people because they realize the influence they can garner with a nation-state far exceeds what a campaign can do itself?
Then if you win, you pardon all the way down and provide quid quo pro sanctions relief to those countries which helped you. Legal Beagles can quibble over the law but clearly this is never what our founding fathers intended and is as un-democratic as it comes.
Everything you describe is basic SOP for all fascist dictators. So it isn’t entirely clear that he is emulating Putin rather than both Putin and Trump playing from the same Fascism 101 playbook.
Objectives are the same, implementation is not. Putin wrote that book, and Trump is cribbing his notes.
Another brick in the wall.
Please excuse me if I don’t take the linked article as the epitome of truth in journalism given the fact that the author is still trying to claim that Planned Parenthood was running an organ trafficking ring. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE= From the link]
That’s not all Fusion GPS has been up to in recent years. In 2015, Planned Parenthood was stung by a video expose that detailed its involvement in human organ trafficking—organs harvested from the bodies obtained after abortions.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but won’t they make an exception for Jared once he brings peace to the Middle East?
If he does, it would be worth it. If its actually “peace”, and not a two day cease fire for reloading.
I was watching the news yesterday and they kept playing this clip of Jeff Sessions saying this:
“I was your colleague in this body for 20 years, and the suggestion that I participated in any collusion or that I was aware of any collusion with the Russian government to hurt this country, which I have served with honor for over 35 years, or to undermine the integrity of our democratic process, is an appalling and detestable lie."
Yes, I know this is an old statement but I caught something in it last night.
The bolding is mine and I’m wondering if this is significant. Because he’s not really saying he didn’t do it. And I think a good percentage of the Trump defenders know damn well that he (Trump and friends, not just Deputy Dawg) did it, but think it was justified as some sort of patriotic act to save our country and democracy from being undermined by the illegitimate money-laundering, child molesting Hillary Clinton.
And I think that’s the signaling every time every time some Trumpist says "If the Russians interfered in our election that is horrible,horrible and we need to get to the bottom of it. There’s a sense of nudge nudge wink wink we know we have to say this but it saved us from Hillary, right? It’s the new “patriotism” at work.
And I think this attitude is going to persist no matter what else is revealed. it shows in the constant moving of the goalposts - the very title of this old thread is Trump ASSOCIATES may have colluded with the Russians but then the party line shifted to “Trump himself didn’t do it” and “If he did,its not illegal”.
So I think the stalemating will continue, Trump will fire Mueller and get away with it and he’ll manage to shift the whole thing over to the scandal of Hillary sending 33,000 emails to child sex slave on Mars, or something.
The first line of the linked story is “The story began in September 2015 when a a wealthy REPUBLICAN donor that strongly opposed Mr. Trump put up the money to hire a research firm run by former journalists…”(emphasis mine).
But somehow this was the work of Democrats because the firm has more Democratic than Republican clients? Actually, I think it would be kind of interesting if it turned out that a Republican commissioned the investigation that took Trump down.
I think this is pretty much it in a nutshell.
Trump will first pardon everyone, including himself, for any crimes they may have committed. He’ll say that he had to do this, even though nobody did anything wrong, because of the horrible, terrible witch hunt that is the fault of Clinton and Obama, and so that he can get on with the work of making america grate again. His supporters will eat that up.
He’ll then fire Mueller, because he has nothing to do, now that everyone has been proved to be innocent by Trump’s pardon.
Some Republicans in the house and senate will tut-tut and make noises, but will regretfully say that it is now time to move on. We must get on with governing, they’ll say, and do the important business of the country, now that these distractions are behind us.
Then they will get on with the important work of removing healthcare from the poor and middle class, giving more tax breaks to the 1%, enriching their donors, disenfranchising democrat voters, and keeping brown people from entering the country.
Those were the old-style Republicans, your father’s Oldsmobile. Used to be, they could control the knuckle-walking troglodytes, buy them off with promises…prayer in schools, all they gays move to New York, or San Francisco, or Salt Lake City. (You didn’t know about Salt Lake? Doesn’t matter, moving along…)
The batshit baboons have taken over. And Trump owns them. Also, Rushbo and the National Enquirer. They’re boned. Pubbies cannot win without them, and they cannot control them. They have been served a shit sandwich, hold the mayo! And now they have to bite, chew, swallow, and “MMMM-good!”.
Or retreat into a rump party of principled conservatives with total power to bitch. They made their choice. We warned them, for years, we warned them. Keep making deals with the Devil, and, sooner or later, he owns your ass. The batshit baboon brigade gave them total power, and they expect to be paid. Without the unrelenting support of the BBB, the Pubbies are boned.
So, yeah, they were willing to pull some bullshit to stop Trump. They didn’t, and now they have to suck it.
These things can’t happen you know. Pardons need a conviction first, and also assume guilt. Pardoning oneself has never been done and would make it impossible to govern.
There are 5th amendment implications for each participant while this clusterfuck goes on with everyone scattering for some shelter: You can’t claim the 5th if you are pardoned. (Although I fully expect a legal strategy to be used where the 5th would be invoked for “my president, who I am one with.”) Pardoning isn’t a panacea for him. He will try to tell himself that now, but do you believe him?
I would assume a more likely scenario would be Trump pardoning his associates and minions, resigning and Pence pardoning him, Nixon style.
Trump doesn’t even like being as far from New York as Washington. No, he’s won’t flee; he’ll fight to the end, and if thrown out of office, he’ll be sure to get a pardon from his successor.
Obviously pardons do not need a conviction first.
They DO assume guilt, that part is true, but many people have been pardoned who were not convicted. Like, you know, Richard Nixon. But even the assumptions of guult might not matter; Trumpists will follow Trump. To them, all Trump’s team are innocent, no matter what.
Can you name someone other than Nixon who got this?
Ford pardoned Nixon. No convictions first.