If donald issues pardons en masse then what will happen about the russian presence in the white house?
Most of the country will just not tolerate the threat to the government. It’s too dangerous for congress to ignore. There is no serious argument that it didn’t happen, notwithstanding the syrup sucking 25%. If twitler issues the pardons it makes the investigation that much more critical. In fact it could be seen as part of the russian interference. You know, the thing that happened and that they are investigating? At that moment it will be every second counting. We need security clearances revoked, like yesterday. Whistling and looking up aren’t going to cut it even for the president.
My prediction is that the conflicts and dissonance will be impossible to govern with.
BTW you may impeach someone who has been pardoned right?
If you have any evidence of the current GOP being willing to put country before party I’d like to see it.
As it is, every member of the GOP is doing one of two things; pretending none of this is happening, or claiming it’s all a nothingburger.
Of course he’d do it. In fact, I think he’s very strongly considering the exact scenario I am proposing; pardons all around, then firing Mueller. He’ll announce that he had to do this to allow his administration to move forward with governing, and that the Russia story was fake news and this is merely what he had to do with get past it.
The real question is what the GOP will do. You are clinging, I believe, to hope they would not stand for this. I am quite convinced they WILL stand for it. In fact, I think they’ll support it. They have business to attend to.
No, it would NOT be a constitutional crisis, except for pardoning himself.
A constitutional crisis is when you arrive at a critical juncture in the governance of the nation where the nation’s constitutional law isn’t able to clearly resolve the situation, such as Canada’s King-Byng Affair in 1926, or the Australian crisis of 1975.
In the case of Trump issuing pardons all around, there is no constitutional crisis at all. The Constitution says he can do that; it’s absolutely unambiguous. Any federal offense, providing it is not a matter of impeachment, he can pardon.
Whether he can pardon himself might be a matter of crisis; it seems absurd that he could be this, and yet the Constitution doesn’t say he can’t.
I absolutely agree. And I think that this is exactly what Trump will be considering this weekend. Pardons all around, fire Mueller and then tell the Trumpistas that he HAD TO DO THIS because he was forced to by the evil media and Democrats. He may then threaten to fire anyone else who gets in his way. The GOP will tut-tut and say how this is not good… Then fall right in line and say “Now that this is done, we must move forward for the good of the country. Move along. Nothing to see now”
Trump may not bother to pardon himself (at least right now). He’ll save that for later in his term. Full pardon to himself for anything he might have done at any time in the past.
Quite honestly, I think it might be a 50-50 chance he does exactly this.
If anyone would like to argue that he won’t, well, explain this: why wouldn’t he? It would solve his Russia problem, and he doesn’t care that it’s wrong. His supporters will be completely in favour of it. What’s the downside?
I don’t think he’ll pardon himself. He has no reason to; the GOP will not impeach.
After the pardons all around, and firing Mueller, Trump will then focus on THE REAL CRIMINALS; Those people who dared to give information to the press. God help them, because the full force of Trump’s Stasi is going to be unleashed. (seriously, I would not be surprised to see an “intelligence service” created that is specifically loyal to Trump, rather than to the country, the constitution, or any political party)
Why are you so sure of what will happen next? You were so sure that Clinton was going to win, and look what happened! Anything goes! Anything is possible!
You will take a bet on “Pardons all around, fire Mueller and then tell the Trumpistas that he HAD TO DO THIS because he was forced to by the evil media and Democrats.”?
I’m not sure why you think that the base are the ones making this happen. The russia investigation can’t be stopped by these methods. It may take different forms, with different actors. But where is it going to go with everyone who is not pardoned or pardoning? Certainly an investigation may go on even if everyone you know is pardoned. The investigation is dealing with actors and events outiside of the pardons and critical to national security. If you have plotted this out in a way that works, you have devoted more rational brain power to it than donald is capable of. So maybe he needs you now. But the schema you have given so far has some bugs.
Thick in the middle of a year of unintended consequences, you have chosen to suspend belief in them, now, for donald, who has the retention of a goldfish. Donald is not immune to them any more than everyone else. In fact…
If he is going to issue pardons all around then he will be impeached. See you here, next month?
I think the only reason he might hesitate is he isn’t as certain of the GOP as you are ;). And neither am I. I tend to fear that you’re correct. But I’m not certain and I suspect Trump’s camp isn’t either. It’s going to probably come down to just how much they think Mueller can produce over whether they want to take the risk, however small, that they might be self-immolating the Trump presidency.
I’m not sure why you think Euphonious Polemic is saying it’s “the base,” unless I missed something further up thread (this one’s been moving fast since I last looked).
It’s not “the base.” It’s the Republican billionaire financiers, the ones who are looking for their payback for years of spending billions to put these guys in office. The carrot is that they will continue to finance Republican Congress persons’ campaigns and allow them to stay in office. The stick is that they will finance primaries in opposition to them if they fail to deliver.
Anytime I hear some pundit talk about the Republican “base,” I mentally insert the word, “owners.”
And yes, Democrats are also financed by billionaires, but seem to exert a modicum of independence to do the job they were sent to Washington to do when they can. They’re also figuring out how important grass roots financing is.
I agree with most of this, except for one thing that I haven’t seen discussed before (if I missed it here or in another thread, pre-apologies): If someone pardons others in an effort to protect himself from criminal charges when he leaves office, then that could certainly be construed as an abuse of the powers of the office. I imagine it could be litigated to hell and back.
I imagine a lot of new precedents will be set before all this is said and done. And I hope Bader-Ginsburg and Kennedy have food tasters.
