Trump, Personal and Business Financing in Light of Current and Future Judgments

Politics & Elections
21

I’m out of gift links, but:

Trump Will Be Able to Wait to Pay Full $83.3 Million Until All Appeals Are Exhausted

Even though he seems to have the money, I wonder if the amount is more than he will pay without being truly forced.

This is a federal case. If he wins in November, he will try to self-pardon. From what I read, it is settled law that pardon power doesn’t extend to civil matters. But the current Supreme Court does not seem to value precedent highly. And he might be able to order his executive branch not to enforce the judgment.

As for future judgments, it sounds like there will be an even bigger one from New York State. Would he really pay that? Or would they have to try to seize real estate?

If Trump wins the election, New York State could also try to garnish the Presidential salary. Lots of luck with that.

22

The text of the Constitution is that the President “shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” It would take a truly extraordinary reinterpretation of the Constitution to regard a civil judgment as an “offence against the United States.” In Ex Parte Grossman, the SC found that the President could pardon an individual for criminal contempt court, but the decision noted that in a civil contempt the punishment is remedial and for the benefit of the complainant and therefore was not subject to pardon.

23

The executive branch wouldn’t enforce that judgement. But he might be able to get them to block enforcement of the judgement by others while he’s in office.

24

Verily, I say unto thee:
After Trump is re-elected, all things are possible.

25

Now, if he was sued by America Ferrera, he could try to argue that it was an offense against America…

But yeah, he can’t pardon his way out of a civil judgment, that’s absurd. That’s not how pardons work.

No, rather all things will be attempted. If you want to see an extremely angry POTUS throwing tantrums just let him get back in. This fantasy that the United States elects an omnipotent emperor wouldn’t be any more true now than it was in 2016 when people were foolishly saying the same thing.

If he got back in to office he might be able to get some legal problems squashed (though not all), but aside from just straight up corruption lining his pockets it’s not going to fix his finances.

26

True - but I think the corruption this time is going to be far more blatant. He’s got far less to lose, 4 years of significant power without even challenging the norms, and plenty of sticks that he can apply with enough of a fig-leaf to get by the current SCOTUS. Note - I don’t say the SCOTUS is bought and paid for the way Trump feels they should be, but if it furthers their goals and the fig leaf is enough, they aren’t likely to poke the bear.

So, since this is a thread about financial affairs, I figure certain pardons are going to be all-but-obviously for sale, and investors/creditors who are (or will soon be) under investigation for tax and other federal crimes would be able to “invest” in Trump and find the DOJ and IRS are suddenly commanded to work on “higher priorities”.

There will be pushback, but I also see a metric ton of firings and the resulting chaos as any who won’t serve are purged. Even if he can’t get lawfully approved replacements in, just the loss of people will create the chaos he needs.

And the barely-concealed money will roll in. Which is why I think (entirely IMHO) that while he wishes his various lawyers were MORE competent, he’s really after the press and outrage generation. Yes, as Pres he can’t legally fix all his problems, but he’ll have enough influence to absolutely stonewall them for a minimum of 4 years.

27

Hmm… Maybe you’re right, the corruption would probably be worse. Grift like we’ve never seen before!

28

One of the things that (IMHO) is different about Trump as a politician is that he really isn’t in it for the power precisely. Oh, don’t get me wrong, he loves to be able to shrug off anyone who goes after him, and equally loves to use authority to punish those who disrespect him. But the power (other than protection) doesn’t seem to be the goal, it’s the means.

He seems to (back to this thread’s raison d’etre) count winning and losing in terms of Money. Probably because that’s how he was raised, and because previous politicians to a greater or lesser extent in the US played with the norms. Which is why I think he values people like Putin - not because of his power, but because he (Putin) uses it to make sure that he’s always protected and his enemies are always crushed.

His rise to fame (based on his money again) gave him legions of fans, fanning his narcissism, but I think he still ties that in with his wealth as a source of self-worth.

So, and again, IMHO, I think this is why all the legal challenges that -might- put him in jail never get him to stop fighting, but challenges that risk his money may make him go quiet, at least briefly.

To someone that self-obsessed, he’ll likely never admit even to himself that he could go to jail (especially based on his prior experiences) - but seeing money he has to give up, even if just to the courts while he (hopefully futilely) appeals, is -real- to him in a way other things aren’t.

So, back to the thread, if he starts seeing real loss of money, with no viable way to claw it back, he may start to panic. If he can’t get people like Axos (double checked!) to bail him out, then he’ll use less and less credible means because that’s what he values.

Above and beyond the extreme grift I mentioned earlier, no matter the reasons for the judgements, he will consider that lost money “his” and will NOT stop trying to get it back by fair means or foul.

29

It reminds me of L Ron Hubbard. He wrote the book Dianetics and created a therapy system based on it. His efforts did poorly and he had to file for bankruptcy, and lost the rights to the book as part of the bankruptcy proceedings.

In response, he founded Scientology as a religion. Not because he had any desire to be a religious leader, but he saw a lot of protections afforded to religious organizations not given to businesses, and he wagered that he’d be able to succeed there where he failed before, even though he was doing the exact same thing, just under the guise of a religion. And it worked, so well that the church has survived for almost 40 years after his death.

I see what Trump is doing in a similar way. This is a means to an end, and that end is money. There’s even a cult of sorts built around what Trump is pushing. And unfortunately, it will probably persist past his death. But the whole point of it all is to make money.

30

Which leads me to wonder: When does the Church of Trump get formed, and who will be in charge of the grift?

31

Seriously, considering Trump’s vainglory and tax dodges, I am somewhat surprised he -hasn’t- already. He’s abused the legal charity dodges, and it would be a great way to hide and comingle money. Seriously, even if he didn’t put one up with himself as a religious figure (yet, once he dies I fully expect Mar-a-lago to become fully Graceland’ed) creating a self-sponsored “Christian” church that he rents space too, collects donations at, and puts money (insufficiently documented of course) into for tax reasons seems like an easy reach.

And if he hadn’t already been hammered on TrumpU I’d have expected a new for-profit school with VERY loose online curriculum in a supportive state.

Taking this back to the thread though - I think the reason he never bothered with such dodges prior to his presidential run is he never expected his businesses to -ever- face real scrutiny. He’d keep on cheating, because it’s what everyone does. He was too rich, and too lawyered up for his business to be at any risk, and -again- it’s what everyone does in his mind.

And he wasn’t totally wrong, it’s taken this long for there to be serious threat to the above. And EVEN with the evidence he’s a bad risk, and that he and his accountants are literally making shit up, there are people who will give him the funds to continue - not just his base, but folks who are likely banking (heh) on influence of one sort or another while Trump continues to focus on his first love, money.

First love: Money. Second: Adulation Third: Power over little people. Everything else can fight for the few remaining grubby remnants of his attention.

32

I’ve checked every month, and have zero expectations because of how much Florida brown noses Trump, but has anyone else seen any reporting on one of the other financial fallouts of the investigations - Mar-a-lago’s dramatic undervaluation?

Last I saw was Democratic Reps asking Florida to re-appraise it after Trump claimed it was worth over a billion, but was being taxed at around 20 million in value. I’m sure said request was treated with all the dignity that requests for equal treatment under Florida law for all parties are: zero. But perhaps someone with better google-fu can find if it’s been dismissed, shunted off to never be reviewed again, or other stalling/sidetracking tactic.

33

Sent to the Department of IOKIARDI

(It’s OK If A Republican Does It)

34

I wondered why New York didn’t go after him for tax fraud when he admitted, hell bragged, in open court (and everywhere else) that he had undervalued his assets. Maybe they are saving that for later?

35

I assume we have seen the story about Trump having spent $50 million on legal fees so far?

Now I don’t know what Trump’s faux-lavish lifestyle actually costs but couldn’t he live comfortably for at least a year or two on $50 million? I know I sure could. At what point is he going to realize that all of his money, all of his time and all of his energy is going towards things that make him miserable?

36

Undervaluation is good, The day after Biden wins re-election, he should call into the oval the head of the National Park Service and suggest use of eminent domain on Mar-a-lago to create the Post National Historic Site. We should then pay only the valuation previously used for tax purposes.

37

I suspect they are awaiting the completion of the civil case, which has turned up oh so much evidence of questionable practices by Trump Org. Starting with that “loan”…

38

Yes, I think this is one of the reasons Trump is going to be ever-more frenzied in his efforts to win, not just an election, but then to cow his ‘team’ (sarcasm quotes) in order to demand all laws be bent or re-written to protect him, if he doesn’t just outright ignore them. Too much dirt, in too many places has come to light.

39

The NY Trial just dumped $360ish million in damages, 3 year restrictions for Trump, 2 years for the spawn, and apparently an overseer on the business to prevent further financial violations. Link to specific thread with the detailed judgement.

More importantly to -this- thread, the following is also reported in thread and on CNN:

Judge Arthur Engoron also entered an order barring former President Donald Trump from applying for loans from any financial institution registered with the New York Department of Financial Services for three years.

Now, AFAIK, this is a state specific thing. So Axos upthread could continue to lend him money to do… things… I presume, as long as the funds were handled in an appropriate manner as far as the watchdog is concerned. So presumably sufficiently motivated and wealthy entities can continue to prop up his organisations.

40

It’d get real interesting if 2nd, 3rd etc level entities were also prohibited from dealing with this crook.

So some shell bank in Texas can loan money to trump but not if any of their money comes from NY. Etc.