And you fail.
You seem to be (accidentally, I’m sure) mixing up the issue of undocumented immigrants having some form of fake ID with undocumented immigrants fraudulently voting. These are not the same thing at all.
It’s a well-known fact (see this article from last September) that many undocumented immigrants obtain some form of fake ID, usually a Social Security card (via which they pay Social Security taxes to the US government that they end up never benefiting from, by the way). Such documents enable them to get jobs, which is why they came here in the first place.
Fraudulently voting, on the other hand, would be a significant risk of exposure of their illegal-residence status for zero effective benefit, and consequently would be a massively stupid thing to do. As repeatedly shown, there is no evidence of any significant fraudulent voting in the US, by undocumented immigrant noncitizens or by anyone else.
By the way, if you’re in such a tizzy about the criminality of possessing fake ID, what do you think of the huge percentage of college students (approximately one-third) possessing fake IDs? With about 20 million Americans in college, that’s a “criminality” level at least on a par with what you’re complaining about among undocumented immigrants.
Should we be deporting or jailing those college students too, as “criminals unwanted in the USA”? Or is it just immigrants for whom possessing fake ID in order to be able to earn a living counts as terrible “criminality”, as opposed to college students possessing fake ID in order to be able to violate laws against underage alcohol consumption? :dubious:
No, you fail.
The Democrat is on video.
If brainwashed MSNBC and CNN loving liberals get triggered by seeing a Breitbart link, then here is the same video on a different site that has to do with California legislative information.
They are not the same thing at all, I agree, and I have not claimed that they are the same.
I would not equate a college student who is an American citizen having a fake ID to get into a bar to be anywhere near the level or seriousness of an illegal alien intruder that has no right to be in the country and an illegal alien that has falsified various documents in order to defraud American citizens of vast amounts of money, through defrauding the healthcare system, the social security system, the educational system and more.
They will simply have to go, they will have no choice.
But you tried to imply it. ThelmaLou said:
And you responded:
That is, you asserted your belief in the (unsupported) claims of massive amounts of fraudulent voting among undocumented immigrants. And to support it, you cited the well-known fact of massive amounts of… false ID possession among undocumented immigrants.
Yes, many undocumented immigrants have some form of fake ID. But that doesn’t mean that any of them are fraudulently voting in US elections. In fact, fraudulent voting would be one of the stupidest things they could do for their security, which depends on their avoiding official scrutiny of their identity and residence status as much as possible.
Except, as my linked article mentions, the undocumented immigrants are not “defrauding American citizens of vast amounts of money”. On average, as overwhelmingly young and healthy full-time workers striving to avoid any kind of official notice, they’re paying more into the tax system than they receive from it.
Interesting, moreover, that your hypocrisy blithely condones American college students committing exactly the same illegal act (obtaining fake ID) that you’re so horrified about in the case of undocumented immigrants. Apparently it wasn’t the dreadful “criminality” of such an act that was really bothering you after all. :rolleyes:
The point that I was trying to make was that people who have already shown that they are willing to commit widespread fraud and document falsification are likely to commit fraud in other areas also, including voter fraud. That doesn’t sound like a stretch at all to me. It sounds very likely.
We see the same thing with the violent liberal riots taking place. Many of the violent leftist idiots rioting probably didn’t even bother to vote, but it’s also not a stretch to assume that some of those same people would have no issues partaking in voter fraud, based on their acceptance of extreme violence, political terrorism and their ISIS like fanaticism and devotion to their screwy ideology.
That makes about as much sense as arguing that people who drive over the speed limit are likely to set fire to their own cars on the highway, merely because both are illegal acts.
Once again, using small words, undocumented immigrants obtain fake IDs because they need them to get jobs. In other words, they have an extremely strong incentive to break the law in this very specific way.
They have effectively no incentive at all to break the law by committing voter fraud: in fact, they have a strong disincentive to do so. Not only does it do them no particular good in the near term, it involves a serious and completely avoidable risk of detection of their fake identity.
That makes about as much sense as a rapist blaming their crime on a victim who happened to be scantily clad.
There is no justification for anybody to be in this country illegally.
No maybes. The only question is worthless idiot and troll, or just worthless idiot.
We call that kind bankers.
This makes no sense. The fake documentation used by illegal immigrants is meant to help them “blend in” to the rest of society at large. Fraudulently voting is something that increases the likelihood of being identified. Being identified by the government is probably not too likely on the list of priorities for most illegal immigrants.
Their plan and the plan of many democrats is to make all illegal alien criminals legal, so there is a very strong incentive for the illegals and for democrats to partake in voter fraud.
I am not in any way “justifying” illegal border crossing. What I’m trying to explain to you, and which you seem to be having a remarkably hard time understanding, is that just because somebody commits a criminal act which has an immediate and crucial benefit for them does not mean that they’ll be likely to commit a different kind of criminal act which has no effective benefit for them, but rather a substantial and serious risk.
I am claiming that voter fraud does have a benefit and that there is an incentive for those people to commit voter fraud.
Their ultimate goal is of course to make the illegals legal, and the democrats will help them achieve that goal, or so they think, but somebody (DJT) has come along and put a spoke in their wheel.
Nonsense. As Ambivalid points out, and as I’ve been explaining for several posts now, there’s no realistic incentive whatsoever for undocumented immigrants to commit voter fraud, considering the risk involved.
Undocumented immigrants are a tiny fraction of the nearly one-quarter of a billion eligible voters in the US, and most of them are concentrated in districts that are heavily liberal/Democratic already. Their committing voter fraud wouldn’t do a damn thing overall to affect legislation on undocumented immigrants in general, even if they were willing to run the risk to their personal security, which is extremely unlikely—and which, let me note once again, there is absolutely zero substantiating evidence for.
And that’s precisely why there should be an investigation into these matters, so that we can find out what the truth is and what the facts are.
When I see how many liberals have now become totally unhinged, mentally unstable and even violent in some cases, I have no doubts at all that voter fraud is being committed and it should be investigated.
We have seen numerous hate crime hoaxes and there isn’t anything that those people would not do, including voter fraud.
By the way, I’d like to congratulate Blinkyandpinky on an impressively sustained feat of goalpost shifting.
First he says that unsupported allegations of massive fraudulent voting by undocumented immigrants “make sense” because they tend to have fake ID. When it’s pointed out that those aren’t the same thing, he claims that the latter implies the former because it indicates general willingness to engage in fraudulent behavior.
And when that’s refuted by noting that undocumented immigrants have a strong incentive to commit the latter sort of fraud but a strong disincentive to commit the former sort, he retreats to outright fallacious insistence on the claim of an imaginary incentive for it that he just plain made up.
It has now been pointed out that basic demographic data makes this supposed “incentive” completely unrealistic as any kind of rational voting strategy. I’m eager to see where he’ll take those goalposts next.
ETA: Yup, there he goes. “Well, it’s precisely because it’s so unrealistic and unsupported by evidence that it needs to be investigated! Those liberals are irrational enough for anything, so if there’s no sensible reason for them to do it and no evidence that they are doing it then that reinforces my conviction that they must be doing it!”
:dubious: Mm-hmm.
I suppose that we shall see which one of us is correct after a thorough investigation is completed.
You stand by what you claim, and I stand by what I claim.
Only one of us can be correct, and eventually, we will know the answer to that.