Not to mention that he is only referring to non citizens outside the USA, not to the point, it only looks to be just annoying avoidance to recognize that indeed immigrants and undocumented people have rights in the USA.
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/edumat/studyguides/noncitizens.html
Just curious, if any sitting President was to actually try an ban all people of a certain religion from entering the country, would that take a constitutional amendment or could it be somehow done under some nebulous never ending “war on terror” emergency power.
What difference, at this point, does it make?
Au contraire! The issue originally was whether under the Constitution it would be permissible for the U.S. to deny entry to immigrants from other countries based upon their religion. RK then brought up defendants within the U.S. to try to claim non-citizens have Constitutional rights. I then posted my cite which showed that this applies only to non-citizens within U.S. territory. Since Europe and the Middle East are most decidedly not within U.S. territory there appears to be nothing in the Constitution to prohibit denial of immigration based upon the proposed immigrant’s religious status.
Just saying anyhow, my point also stands, specially because we are talking also about what Trump is proposing to do with immigrants already in the USA. Still, saying then that “The Constitution only covers citizens of the United States” is not telling us the whole picture regarding your point.
Trump is not just calling for denying immigration based on being a muslim, he is calling for denial of entry. Eg denying muslims being able to get tourist or business visas to enter the US on short visits.
I’d be real interested to know if his proposed ban would extend to members of the Saudi Royal family who are such good friends with the Bush clan.
What can I do to make Trump the nominee? I don’t think he needs my donation dollars, but is there anything else I can do to make this happen? It’s just all so delicious. How do we go about getting Hitler atop the Republican ticket?
At this point it’s so obvious the rest of the GOP field and state parties have teamed up to damn anything he says. They’re perfectly on message. I mean, what makes this any worse than the other bullshit he’s spewed and no one in the Republican Party’s cared one iota about? Nothing. But now they’re all shitting bricks and have taken it upon themselves to unite and try and take him down.
But seriously, what can I do to give him more power in the primary? Trump getting the nomination could possibly be the most important thing to happen to this country in decades. If, in the general election, he can expose the GOP for the anti-human fascists they’ve become, we may be on our way back to normalcy. Taint the brand bad enough and no one’s gonna want to touch it. How do I get him the nomination?
ETA: I came in to post a link to this and got all distracted: Trump Gives Muslim on Fence About Radicalizing Just the Push He Needed.
That’s true. I forgot about the necessity here to dot every “i” and cross every “t” whenever a general answer runs counter to the point my opponent is trying to make. However, it’s a distinction without a difference in the context of** RK’s** concern as to whether a hypothetical President Trump could legally block entry by Muslims into the U.S. based upon their religion. Since they are clearly non-citizens and not within U.S. territory there appears to be no Constitutional prohibition to prevent his doing so.
Based on the behavior of our current president my guess would be that he could instruct the immigration service to do whatever he wants.
ISTM that we still have the problem of all the citizens who are muslim already in this country. After all, the California shooter was a US citizen. So we ban all muslims from coming here which makes them redouble their efforts to recruit and radicalize those that are already here legally. At the same time, the muslims who are here begin to realize that they will always be treated as second-class citizens and that through no fault of their own, the US has effectively declared war on them. I am sure this will all end well. Meanwhile, I am absolutely devastated over the support Trump is still getting.
It would almost be worth Trump as President just for that clusterfuck.
In GQ there was a thread about people that did take on the Reagan Administration in the 80’s for denying help to undocumented Salvadorans because in their words, they should not be refugees; after all the military dictators of El Salvador were “the good guys”. The groups that sued did it not to test the rights of the immigrants, but the affected group were the humanitarian groups that identified Salvadorans as refugees.
The only reason I mention this is because I can see the pitfalls that any future Republican administration would get into by denying entry for religious reasons. Before getting there it seems to me that the most likely successful lawsuits will come not to defend religious rights, but the rights of the people that are doing the right thing when helping fellow human beings.
He could try, but he wouldn’t get very far since visitor visas are issued by the US Department of State, Bureau of Consular Affairs. Nothing to do with USCIS.
Okay, fine. The Secretary of State serves at the pleasure of the president, does he or she not? I would imagine that if the president wants Saudi royalty admitted to the U.S. in contravention of the usual prohibitions, it wouldn’t be too difficult to make that happen.
Would President Trump ban the Pakistani field hockey team for coming into the US for a world championship? What about Muslim athletes from other countries?
The President can order the executive branch to do whatever he wants within the limits of the law. The issue was that Trump would be barking up the wrong bureaucratic tree if he gave that order to immigration rather than state.
A President Trump could definitely ban Muslims from entering the country, since there is no right to immigration or travel to here from a foreign country and anti-discrimination law provides no protections(that I know of, someone can correct me if I’m wrong) against discrimination for immigration or visiting purposes.
Who knows? We can ask what-ifs all night, but like I’ve said numerous times before, I don’t believe Trump is serious about most of the things he’s saying and I’ll wait till much closer to the election to decide whether he’s on the up and up or not, and what kind of president I can be reasonably confident he’d actually be. Even though at this point I’m sure it looks like I’m behind Trump no matter what and all the way, that really isn’t so. I’m watching his campaign play out with a great deal of curiosity as to where he’s going with it, but the truth is I’m undecided at this point as to whether I’d vote for him if he actually makes it to the general election.
I think he’s on the up and up. The policy he’s proposed would work, it’s just not very savory.
Maybe, but thats not what he’s calling for:
“https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration”
“Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”
Guess the UN will have to remove their HQ from New York as well.
Thanks, but I’ve already been made aware of that. It’s the reason I shifted from immigration to State in my comments about the Secretary of State serving at the pleasure of the president, and the ease with which the president could make it happen if he wanted to allow Saudi royalty into the country in contravention to prohibitions against Muslims in general.
Diplomats have always been an exception to travel bans. What, do you think Trump’s idea is something no one has ever tried before?