Trump's collapse and Cruz's inevitability

We aren’t yet at peak Trump, but the collapse is predictable, and so I will predict it.
A lot of the media (and people on here) have largely misidentified Trump’s core of support, because it falls into two media blind spots. The first is the lazy tendency to put everything on a left-right axis; the second is the assumption that since Trump is a racist idiot, and everyone knows conservatives and Republicans are racist idiots, that Trump is appealing to the core elements of the GOP.

But in fact, a major reason for Trump’s success is because he is attracting Democrats to the GOP primaries. (e.g.) The media have somehow been able to report both record turnout for GOP primaries and depressed turnout for Democratic primaries without taking the fairly obvious step of putting the two together, probably because their assumption is that people that appeal across party lines must be “moderates” or “centrists.”

The blue-collar whites that are his base used to be a core Democratic constituency; they have felt edged out of a party now dominated by social progressives and racial minorites, but neither do they fit in with the bible-thumpers-libertarians-and-CEOs GOP. One of the key distinguishing features of Trumpkins is their sense of disinfranchisement (cite). Understanding Trump’s support thus far explains why he will not win the GOP nomination.

[li]The people who are supporting him, by their own definition, do not feel represented by any other major political figures in the GOP (or anywhere else) … which means are not especially socially conservative, not especially small-government fans, nor especially any of the things that most of the rest of the party is. Thus, he’s going to have a hard time growing his numbers, he does have a ceiling, and so far he hasn’t been many people’s second choice. In the early part of the race, with a dozen candidates, you can win with 30%. Not so much later on. And while doing things like attacking George W Bush and supporting Planned Parenthood resonate with his disaffected base, they hurt him with the bulk of Republicans.[/li]
On a purely practical level, the fact that a significant fraction of his support comes from Democrats spells trouble, because the contests from here on out are mostly closed ones. Moreover, all of the states thus far have had proportional delegate allocation, so while Trump has won 67% of the states so far, he’s only won about 45% of the delegates. That’s all going to start changing, and here’s how this will play out.

Over the next ten days, there are 11 contests; but 8 of them are closed (thus far, Trump has only won 1 of 4 pub-only primaries). Trump will probably win about 9 of those 11; Cruz will take Idaho, probably Kansas, maybe Maine.* Kasich could steal Michigan, but more likely will finish a strong second, enough to justify going on. Rubio will finish a solid 2nd in several states, and thus will also stay in. Winning that many states will intensify the “Trump is unstoppable” panic.

March 15 will be Peak Trump: that’s the date of the Florida primary, which is both closed and winner-take all. Also on the same day: Illinois (open, w-t-a), Missouri and Ohio (semi-closed, w-t-a). North Carolina as well but it’s proportional, so it has much less sway in the delegate count. Kasich will win Ohio. Trump will win Illinois, and either Trump or Cruz will win Missouri. Florida will be the decisive race, and one of three things will happen:

  1. If Trump were to win Florida – which is likely – the delegate count on 3/16, assuming Trump wins Florida and Missouri, will be something like

Trump 720
Cruz 360
Rubio 185
Kasich 125

Which looks bad, and will make the talking heads swear Trump is inevitable …until you realize that Rubio losing Florida will effectively destroy his candidacy (and only winning Ohio will also destroy Kasich’s). There will be three-week lull in the race, where the only contests are closed, winner-take-all races in Utah and Arizona, (which will go to Cruz), and during which time Rubio and Kasich drop out, and way more of their supporters will go to Cruz than to Trump.

From there on out, nearly all the contests are states that are closed, meaning Cruz is much more likely to win them, and Winner-take-all, meaning they will count much more than Trump’s early proportional wins.

Even if Trump takes New York, New Jersey and a couple medium-sized states (say Maryland and West Virginia), Cruz will take California, and they will go to a brokered convention roughly tied at around 950 delegates of the ~1200 needed … but Cruz will have all the momentum, and will be seen as much more electable in the general. The GOP leadership despise Cruz on a personal level, but that doesn’t go for the kind of people who are actual delegates. Neither the Trump nor Cruz people are going to settle for any kind of compromise establishment guy, and Cruz will be more appealing to the ~300 Rubio/Kasich delegates.
2) If Rubio stays in after 3/15, knowing it’s going to a brokered convention… much the same thing will happen anyway. The strategy – play for a strong third place, and hope to get elevated by backroom deals at the convention – will turn people off, and it will be pretty hard to tout himself as “electable” in the general. He won’t win states (and hence very few delegates), and even if he succeeds in being a spoiler by splitting the non-Trump voter in someplace like Wisconsin, that will just increase the calls for him to drop out.
3) Should Rubio win Florida, on the other hand … it probably still won’t make a difference, though it will just mean a lot more acrimony. Having Rubio in until the end will continue to split the anti-Trump vote, and he could well peel off a few states from Cruz. However, unless Rubio is able to either 1) beat Cruz in winner-take-all states like places like South Dakota, Indiana and Nebraska, or 2) beat Trump in places like Maryland and New Jersey, he’s doomed to third place … which means kingmaker but not a king. Even if Rubio takes California, they’d go to the convention with Trump at ~1000, Cruz at ~600, Rubio at ~500, Kasich at ~100. The Rubio people will go to Cruz before Trump, especially if Trump seems to have been fading down the stretch. That would be somewhat close-run, though, and Trump if could steal a few states as the fat end of a 40/30/30 split, he might slide over the 1200 delegate mark.

Thus, Trump’s best chance of getting the nomination is to lose Florida. I don’t think he’ll do it.

Cruz’s victory in the general, is, of course, a foregone conclusion. :wink:

Mock away.

  • I started this earlier today, and was called away. Since then, polls have closed and Cruz does seem to have claimed Kansas and Maine.

I really hope it doesn’t come down to Cruz vs Hillary. Because I get the sense that Cruz will hand Hillary’s ass to her in the debates.

I don’t know what “semi-closed” means, but the actual practice is that Ohio has open primaries. You can take whatever ballot you want. There is no barrier to people who aren’t registered Republicans voting, since once they take the Republican ballot they are registered Republicans.

:dubious:

Ok. :stuck_out_tongue:

It is also likely that a good number of them were attracted to sabotage the Republicans by making an effort to get the worst Rep candidate to face then Clinton or Sanders in the general election.

To say Trump is collapsing is way too much of a stretch. He is winning many states and has more wins under his belt than Cruz. Where he loses, he is always in second place. Cruz has won less states, and his ranking have varied from strong seconds to third or distant fourth finishes. He is all over the place. Cruz does better in caucuses, and with the exception of his home state of Teas, the state he wins are small.

Not to say Cruz is doing badly, his argument that he is the only one to beat Donald Trump is correct.

But to be sure Trump will win most of the states.

My instinct is that people underrated Donald way too much in his chances against Hillary. I also do not buy the fact that Clinton is doomed if she faces Ted in November.

Put aside his incendiary words, Trump is a moderate candidate and can pull away more conservative democrats, while more moderates won’t be attracted to Cruz. The guy is way too right wing, he is way more on the right than any of the GOP candidates. Rubio and Kasich can defeat Clinton, but I don’t see Cruz doing it, Hillary will smoke him.

Trump could appeal to those who prefered Bernie Sanders, more Reagan democrats, middle of the road folks and all. Trump has often competed with Sanders for independents, and even some former Obama supporters now support Trump from what I read. Pretty weird.

Cruz is not going to get these independents, Sanders supporters, middle of the road types, or conservative democrats.

I don’t buy that Ted will crush Hillary.

That’s… difficult.

9

Still does not hide the fact that Ted Cruz is the more dangerous, lunatic right winger of the two. Acting more “professional” does not change that fact.

Maybe, but the context here is important: you were using that phrase to lead into an argument that Trump could successfully attract certain types of voters away from Hillary. You might be right, but it would definitely require a good deal of those voters to do what you said: put aside his rhetoric. That, as I said, is difficult.

This is nonsense; Arizona will not go to Cruz.

In these “closed” primaries its my understanding that anyone can still register as a Republican and then vote in the primary, its not like they turn you down because you used to be a Democrat.

But you have to do it in advance, often 30 days in advance, and it’s not like Trump had big registration drives.

Kind of makes you wonder how Trump would be doing if he had actually put together a first-rate campaign organization.

I think you’re right. I think Trump would be easier to beat, but at the same time, I think a President Trump is so dangerous that I’m willing to take a chance on having the slightly higher chance of a President Cruz than having the only thing standing between Donald Trump and nuclear weapons being Hillary Clinton.

Besides, while I think Clinton is more vulnerable than anyone thinks, and have a hunch it’s a repeat of 2000, an unpopular democratic candidate blowing what should be an easy third term win, I think she has the advantage over anyone but maybe Kasich.

Same for Missouri.

I really want Trump to be the nominee if the alternative is Shutdown Ted. I mean, obviously, the opposite of Trump is Kasich, but apparently a sober, hard-money Catholic is not that appealing right now.

And as MGK alluded in a comedy bit this week ( Mightygodking dot com » Post Topic » POLITICAL DELIBERATION ), Cruz is worse than Trump by most measures.

Cruz is less likeable, he’s arguably more of a “bigot’s candidate” than Trump, he’s another Texas Petroleum Republican too soon after Bush & Cheney, and he’s an all-guns-no-butter fanatic. He has the potential to be the USA’s Steve Harper, as if that weren’t already George W. Bush. And Dubya was at least a pretty nice guy personally, which Cruz doesn’t seem to be. If Cruz is the probable compromise choice of the party, I’d rather have Trump take it all.

This all sounds plausible to me. Except I don’t think the reason Trump is winning is because of disenfranchised democrats voters, I think its more because the uneducated southern redneck states went first in the primaries and as they move on to more of the educated blue states Trump won’t get votes. But I’m hoping everyone is overestimating Cruz’s chances against Hillary. There is just nothing likable about Cruz. Hilary isn’t likable either but Cruz is really repulsive to look at and reptilian, and so extreme in his view he seems crazier than Trump. Someone please chime in and tell me Cruz can’t win.

Cruz can’t win.

Kudos to the OP for the detailed prediction and explanation. I think he has to address GIGObuster’s point: Trump is in no way reliant on Democratic votes during the primary.
I also think the OP ignores the goals of the establishment. They want to force a contested convention, then hand the nomination to anyone but Trump or Cruz. I admit that will be hard if Rubio loses Florida and Kasich doesn’t do Better Than Expected or any excuse they can be drum up.

But can the establishment meet its goals? It looks difficult. Plan B involves a Trump or Cruz nomination and luke-warm support. Rats desert a sinking ship. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says that vulnerable Senators will drop Trump like a hot rock. I suspect the same would be for Cruz.
I’ll add some standard questions asked by those who attempt to measure expert opinion. furt: Imagine you are shown to be wrong. How could that happen? Does that exercise lead you to reassess your story? What are your updated odds?

Kasich isn’t leaving the race assuming he wins Ohio, for two reasons:

  1. There’d be no establishment representative in the race, which means either Trump or Cruz probably get a first ballot victory. Kasich staying in and getting a few delegates here and there is going to matter, especially if we assume that Rubio only suspends and retains his delegates as well.

  2. Trump is doing well among moderates and Cruz doesn’t appeal to moderates at all. So if Kasich drops out, where do his voters go? More of them will go to Trump than to Cruz. So if the establishment wants to deny Trump a victory, there’s a better chance of doing that with Kasich staying in the race than leaving it.

The trophy for the best political joke of the year goes to Joe Biden:

I think the GOP is having buyer’s remorse regarding Trump. Trump won huge in LA with those voting early, and those voting yesterday nearly won the day for Cruz. I don’t know if he will win MI (hey, where’s the thread about Michigan?) but if he does win, it’ll be by a small margin. Florida may well still go Trump by virtue of early voters, but I don’t think he’ll win Ohio. I know we say this every time, but this year we might actually get to see a newsworthy convention.

Hey, Dirty Harry talking to an empty chair in prime time wasn’t newsworthy? :stuck_out_tongue: