Trust, how do you do it?

In My Humble Opinion
21

That’s just it, I write a lot of things in journals. I do a lot of writing, period. If I write a short story about a random guy, or journal my dreams, etc. I expect that to be private. I don’t care how engaged to him I am, my emails are private and I have an expectation that he will respect that.

He knows that I value privacy very highly. I also value honesty very highly. These are things that are dealbreakers in my opinion. I really don’t know if I’ll stay with him after this. He doesn’t trust me, and now I don’t trust him. It’s not the way I want to live my life. And I won’t be with someone who wants to tell me who I can and can’t be friends with. I don’t do that shit to him, and I can’t live with it.

The more I think about it, the madder and madder I get.

22

I know a cohabitating couple that went through this almost exact scenario [not me]. The “victim” had her email snooped into due to jealous suspicions by the other party and asked my opinion. I advised her to talk it over, setting expectations of privacy and diffusing the jealousy. If they couldn’t come to a mutual understanding, be prepared to break up.

It was rough for a few weeks, but they talked it over, forgave, and now everything is fine.

YMMV.

23

It’s starting to sound like you don’t want to be married to him and you’re just using this as an excuse.

If you truly loved this guy like the good marriages I know, something like this wouldn’t be a deal-breaker.

To piggyback on what Inigo and Harriet are saying, you don’t necessarily expect privacy in a marriage. But, you don’t do things that would be trouble if your privacy were invaded by your spouse.

Yeah, I might be upset if I found out my wife was trying to read my emails. BUT, I don’t have anything in my emails that she would be upset about if she read.

Do I have a couple porno mags stashed in house? Yeah, she probably even knows they’re there. But do I have a relationship with any female or male that she doesn’t totally know about? Not at all. I don’t want it and I wouldn’t think about it.

If you’re not ready for such a committment, then fuck marriage. But if you’re looking for someone to come into the thread and say, “what he did is unforgiveable. Dump that asshole, it’s never going to get better. You can never trust a man like that again. If he doesn’t trust you that means he’s doing something behind your back,” well, wait a while. . .those are starting to trickle in.

24

Allow me to be the manly voice of reason here. Woman constantly complain that “we don’t trust them” when they have some straight male best friend who they are in constant correspondance with. If we men, on the other hand, maintained a similar relationship with a woman, we would not hear the end of it.

My friend had the same exact problem with his girlfriend last year. She got pissed off at him because she read his email about his plans to meet some girl he was friends with for dinner. Meanwhile she’s IMing her ex boyfriend all the time. Surprisingly, when he brought that up, she did not reply “ahhh…well played…you win the argument”.

I’ve simplified my relationship with my GF to resolve any such problems. She is unable to even log into my section of the computer to look at any of my personal files (email, finances, porn, whathaveyou) and I have flat out told her that she should have no more expectation of privacy on my PC than she would at work. Should I so chose I could monitor every keystroke on it. I don’t, but at least it keeps her from leaving crap around that I might accidently find and get pissed about (which would of course get turned around so that I’m the badguy). (It also helps that I just took a job with a forensic and litigation consulting firm).

25

This is a good quality. But everybody who’s ever cheated on anybody will swear by all that is holy that they are honest.

Speaking as a paranoid I would just like to point out that the compulsion to disbelieve grows stronger as the evidence of deception decreases. The better things are going, thinks the paranoid, the more successfully he is being manipulated. Fooled. Humiliated. And the drive to find evidence is maddening. It overrides any rationality, any thought of hurting others, any consequences–all must be sacrificed to uncover that one proof of deception that vindicates the instinct that KNOWS something untoward is going on. The more you argue your innocence, the firmer my conviction that you are lying becomes. Unless you’ve known a strong addiction, you have no idea how difficult it is to resist “investigating.” It’s not as simple as “just don’t” do it.

Most of us rely upon our senses to tell us about our environment. Stimulate your sense of vision by looking at your front door, and you have a mental image, a KNOWLEDGE, that the door is there. The paranoid gets that same sense of knowledge, only it appears out of nowhere. For the paranoid to NOT go on a mission would be exactly like you knowingly trying to walk right through that door without opening it–just because someone told you that it isn’t real.

Maybe your guy’s got a screw loose, maybe not. It’s easy to get mad because YOU’VE been violated (and I’m not saying what he did was right and proper, or that you did anything wrong), but it’s also possible he’s mentally ill (combo paranoia, & depression), and he may not even know it. If he’s a great guy like you always say he is, then either YOU’VE been juked and found out in time that he’s a creep, or he’s got problems. If the latter, then you get to decide BEFORE you’re married whether he’s a mess that’s worth you cleaning up.

26

Indygrrl … I’m really sorry you’re faced with this.

I wouldn’t want anyone else reading my emails - and I wouldn’t want to read anyone else’s. To me that’s a line that you just don’t cross.

I hope the two of you can talk about this and set some boundaries … if your relationship was meant to be (as corny as that sounds), this will only make it stronger. If your relationship can’t survive this betrayal (of his), then maybe it’s better to find out now, before you get married?

I’m sorry if that sounds harsh, I don’t mean it to. Just please don’t panic, and try to talk to him … again and again … until it gets resolved.

Good luck …

27

What? No way. In a good relationship, you can have your own privacy. Me and my SO spend 90 % of our free time together, and we would never dream of doing certain things - like monitoring each others’ calls, checking e-mails, going through my ourse or his wallet, etc. There are some things you just don’t do.

And no, she shouldn’t have to give up her old friendships. BUT…maybe she can expand them and include her SO in them, too.

The thing that worries me, Indygrrl, is you said you were going to tell him, but it would cause a fight. That already says to me he has some jelousy issues.

And FTR, mine does have female friends outside of our relationship. I know about them, and he isn’t afraid to tell me about them. If you’re afraid to tell him, I think that’s a problem.

I am not going to be the one to tell you to break up with him - but the combination of being jealous about a mail friend three continents away, snooping through my e-mails and then reacting the way he did might very well be a deal-breaker for me. I can’t speak for your situation, of course.

28

She also called him, indulged in internet flirting, and sent him pictures.

Maybe Indy can correct me if I’m wrong, but the pictures she posted HERE at sometime in the past showed her lying around on a bed in lingerie. That’s what I thought when she wrote,

Let’s not go into what kind of defense is put up by, “well, a million other guys have seen them too.”

I’m not trying to rake Indygirl over the coals here, but let’s not act like the fiance is some kind of neanderthal flipping out after seeing “hi, how r u 2day?”, especially when he’s not here to defend himself. Maybe he had doubts about what kind of gal he was gettin’ hitched to.

29

Then he should **talk ** to her. Not go through her e-mails.

Do you think “hacking” through her e-mails is in anyway OK? It seems some people think it is.

30

This is one of those situations where (I think) neither one of you is in the right.

Busting into your email to check up on you? Really wrong. To be honest, that might be a dealbreaker for me. I know a couple of people who have done this to their SO’s, and it’s changed my opinion of them for the worse.

Sending pics, flirting, calling Japan guy? Really wrong. You’re engaged. To be married, I assume. I can’t put this in the same category as ex-lover who you keep in touch with, because he’s not someone you’ve gone the distance with and then decided to be friends with. From what I can tell, it seems like a new friendship that has the ability (whether or not you are aware of it or are seeking it) to blossom. And there’s nothing wrong with that, except he’s married and you’re engaged. Sorry; I just can’t see what you’re doing as completely innocent. ‘Playing with fire’ comes to mind.

Bottom line, I wouldn’t blame both of you for rethinking the impending marriage.

31

You know, I snooped once.

It was because I was really insecure about myself. When caught with the evidence, I did not apologize (even though I should have an my BF was absolutely in the right to be furious). You know why? Because I was ASHAMED. Yeah, I tried turning it on him that he shouldn’t have had what I found in the first place (which was nothing more than a defensive reaction based on fear), but I knew in my heart that I was the guilty one.

Is it not possible that your guy has insecurities you don’t even know about? That maybe putting him up on the pedestal has actually worsened his fear? “Someday the woman I love and to whom I want to spend the rest of my life will discover my evil dark secret and leave me.” We often fufill our prophecies when we have irrational fears.

And, Indygrrl, I’m another who is pleading with you not to make a rash decision. An incident is not a trend, and if you’ve never seen this kind of behavior out of him before then that to me is a cry for help, in a way.

I don’t see anything wrong with a cooling off period before you discuss it again, but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

32

Well, I’ve been the same gal since day one. If he’s having doubts, that’s fine. I’m having doubts too. But, I don’t feel that I did anything out of line.

The friend in Japan is someone who is from Indy, who knows a ton of the same people I know. He’s someone that I’ve heard stories about for a long time so when the opportunity came to exchange some emails, I thought it would be fun to ask him some questions.

I sent him a couple of pictures, yeah, I probably shouldn’t have done that. But, I did tell my fiance about it, it’s not like I tried to hide it. They were the same pictures that I have on my My Space account, and he has never said crap about it. I didn’t see a big deal in sending them. As for the sexy nature of the photos, I’ve been doing those for a long time as well as being a dancer, and he knows all of this. If he had a problem with it, he knew this stuff from the beginning. You can’t expect a person’s nature to change just because they get into a relationship.

As for the phone call, the guy called me. We were going to IM, but I couldn’t get mine setup, so he said he’d call. Evidently the rates are really cheap from Japan. I don’t know. I guess I just wanted to talk to the guy. It wasn’t like we sat there and had phone sex or anything.

I’m not trying to make excuses here, and I’m an upfront type of person. In no way was I trying to hide this stuff. And even after he read the emails, and he read more than just the ones from Japan guy, he couldn’t say much because he realized it was a lot more innocent that he had thought. He’s been apologizing since yesterday, but I am having trouble getting past it.

I told him I’d cut off the friendship if that would make him happy. Although, I don’t want to. I’m not trying to have an affair with this person, just an email buddy situation. I’m lonely a lot of the time, and I recently had a falling out with one of my best friends, so I’m just feeling a real sense of depression and loss. This person has given me a few laughs and made me feel better about things.

I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t know if I’ll ever get married or not. It just seems like more of a compromise than I’m willing to make. I’m learning that more every day. I’ve been extremely independent my whole adult life, and I don’t know that I’d do very well with marriage. But, I do love Ben so much, and that’s why I said yes to his proposal. I want it to work, and I really do not want to lose him.

33

I have been married 15 years. If my husband started deliberately spying on me, he would be out the door. Email especially. I have my email accounts, he has his. I don’t read his mail, he doesn’t read mine.

I would show him any email he wanted to see, I tend to tell him about the kinds and types of conversations I have generally, but I would not tolerate deliberate, sneaky spying. It would signal a breakdown in our relationship that could not be repaired. Before something got to that state though there would have been conversations about his concerns and I would have addressed them.

Yes, being married means very little privacy. My husband has extremely good hearing, so he can hear both sides of my phone conversations. I know this, but got him to at least not act like he was eavesdropping but I don’t mind that he knows what I and my friends have to say. (secret: sometimes if I want him to listen to me, I say what I have to say to someone else.) I don’t have as much privacy as most women. I don’t even have my purse to myself. He will go through it to give or take cash, put in insurance cards etc. He has learned over the years not to tidy my purse on pain of pain. The OP is not about a mere lack of privacy. It is about an underhanded and delibeate violation of privacy that she had reasonably expected to have.

34

You seem to want to have your cake and eat it two. You engaged in behavior that your fiance’ wouldn’t condone (flirting, phoning, sending racy pictures) and that’s somehow OK, yet when he engages in behavior that you don’t condone (checking your email) it’s Katy bar the door. Sorry indy, it don’t work that way. I’m not saying that there is anything wrong with flirting, or phoning or even posting pictures of yourself (metaphorical “you”) having sex with the Green Bay Packers, as long as the person that you’re involved with doesn’t find that behavior inappropriate. If they do, and you want a permanent relationship with them, then you must factor that into how you act. The same goes in reverse for him. Personally, I could give a rat’s ass if Gingy went into my emails, I’ve given her all my passwords anyway, but I can understand how you might be bothered by that. It’s OK to be annoyed at the snooping, but you must recognize that perhaps he has a right to be annoyed at your behavior too. Two wrongs don’t make a right, no, but methinks maybe you both need to discuss personal boundaries and what each of you considers appropriate before you take this relationship to the next level.

35

IMHO it is the duty/privilege of the spouse/partner to get first crack at helping you resolve this. Did you give your guy a chance? If not, why not? If so, and he balked, did you interpret that as a lack of support?

Don’t confuse being in love with being compatable for a lifelong commitment. That way lies madness. Sometimes the best display of affection is to save the other person the hurt you see but to which they might be blind…for now.

36

Couple of things here:

  1. You say you weren’t trying to hide this, but you let this situation go for two days without saying anything about it. A lie by omission is still a lie.

  2. It’s one thing to have sexy photos of yourself on a Web site. It’s another thing entirely to actively send those photos to members of the opposite sex. It might be your nature to take sexy photos of yourself and post them on the Net, and your boyfriend/fiance may be fine with that. When you actively direct e-mail pals to the site, or send the photos to someone, that could be a completely different can of worms to your fiance.

It’s one thing to run naked through Times Square. It’s another thing to be naked in a person’s bedroom.

Turn this around. Your fiance presumably knows you’re an upfront person. Then he finds evidence that you’ve been having conversations/e-mails with some other guy, and you haven’t mentioned them. That looks a little suspicious.

Having said that, he was not justified in checking your e-mails. That was wrong, plain and simple.

It sounds to me like you’re both having trust issues here. My wife and I struggle with this occasionally, as do most couples. We’ve both gotten on our high horses about something we think the other has done, and when we talk it out we realize we’re wrong to be upset. The bottom line is, unless you can work through something relatively simple like this, other issues will crop up that can be a whole lot more damaging to your relationship.

37

C’mon Weirddave, you’re dancing around the “R”-word, and it’s really the only thing this thread will ever be about.

Just say it. or do we need to get Aretha Franklin in here to spell it out for the OP & her guy?

38

Forgot the main point I was going to make in my earlier post. Crap.

The guideline my wife and I have created regarding behavior is: “If my spouse heard/saw me doing this, would he/she be okay with it?” Because when you’re married, the opinion that matters most is your spouse’s. It goes back to that “R”-word Inigo Montoya is hinting about.

If the honest answer to the question is “No,” or even “I don’t know,” then you need to re-think what you’re doing. Or you need to re-think being married.

39

R-O-L-A-I-D-S?

40

R-O-F-L-M-A-O!