Trying to buy a used car from a dealer. Are they insane or off or just me?

Factual Questions
141

I actually prefer having my regular maintenance done at the dealer. They’re actually not any more expensive than the national oil change chains, and don’t use high-pressure tactics to upsell me more repairs. The dealer does, however, give me a list of things I’ll need to have done down the road, and lets me know I can schedule the next service when I’m ready.

I may just have a good service department, but I’ve never had an issue with them, and have never felt taken advantage of. They also don’t man-splain stuff to me. Which is always appreciated.

142

The issue with that, is I had a car under warranty. Brought it in for service and a issue. No list of other things needed to be done- but they did give me a free oil change coupon. Two months later, I brought it in for that oil change, and amazingly- there was a long list of things that needed to be done- because the warranty had just expired.

143

I’m not following this line of logic at all. What does the warranty expiring have to do with required routine maintenance items?

144

Okay, let me make it clear.

When the car was no longer under warranty- they gave me a long list of problems that should be fixed. Oddly, when the car WAS under warranty, and those problems would mostly be covered by warranty, they somehow couldnt find those same issues.

145

Did the warranty cover routine maintenance? You need a new filter after x miles, etc.

146

No. But my point is- the list of things wasnt just routine maintenance things. It was mostly things that would be covered under warranty but only after the warranty had expired.

147

I bought my first new Honda in 1993 owned a few more before going to an EV in March. So that’s 30 years of maintenance always at the dealer. They were great and charged about the same as those assholes at Jiffy Lube. Never an issue.

148

My Honda dealer used to have a sign behind the service desk listing various common maintenance items (oil change, wheel alignment, etc) along with their charge and that of various local independent shops. The idea was to show that they were competitive. That might actually be the case, as many repair shops charge based on the same labor times and have similar labor costs.

149

That would certainly piss me off and cause me to lose confidence in the dealer and take my vehicle elsewhere for service. For what it’s worth, that has never happened to me. In fact, I usually make a point in bringing my vehicle in for a free maintenance check right before the warranty expires to give them a chance to address anything that might be covered by the warranty.

They get reimbursed from corporate for warranty repairs so they have no particular incentive to not fix things they find. And they seem to be well aware that they will lose me as a customer if they find something right after the warranty expires. Especially if it’s clear that it’s something that could have easily have been seen and didn’t just happen, and even more so if it was multiple unrelated issues.

150

If you can find an independent shop which specializes in your specific make of car, they can be a great resource to have. They will have seen and worked on all the problems. But if it’s a generic shop like “Firestone Car Care”, then they are really only going to be competent for the basic things. Any unusual or quirky problems will be brand new to them. The independent shop which specializes in your car’s make will likely have seen that weird problem before and know how to fix it.

As for warranties, sometimes dealers want to add a warranty as an add-on to the price of the used car. Having a warranty on a used car sounds great, but the cost may quite high relative to the value. The add-on cost may be more than you would expect to pay for typical maintenance during that time period. So to get any value from the warranty, you’d have to have a lot of maintenance just to get to the break-even point. For instance, if you pay $1500 for a 1-year warranty, you’d have to have $1500 in covered repairs before you’d break even. In general, you’d be better off pocketing the $1500 and taking your chances. However, the dealers won’t necessarily take off the warranty add-on from the price, so you may need to walk away if you don’t want to pay it.

151

if I remember the new model year for cars starts in oct… or it used to anyway

152

You may be fortunate enough to have a mechanic equipped with all the electronic gadgetry required to diagnose and service a modern car.

For a car that cost over £30k new, nine years ago, I do not think the monthly charge is excessive. I follow a group of people with the same make and model and regularly see the problems they have with incorrect parts and faulty diagnoses.

153

We here have a generic local one man mechanic. Very honest. if he is busy, he take sonly locals.

154

They may get reimbursed, but they also get penalized by corporate. They have a lot of incentive to fix certain things, and not fix other things.

The corporation keeps massive data bases on every part and every service sold by every dealer. If a dealer’s numbers are not near the average of all the other dealers, the corporate headquarters files a complaint with him.
They first warn, and the penalize, the dealer for not “supervising his mechanics properly”. (i.e. being too honest)

If, say, a dealer finds more than average number of worn-out belts that need replacing during the warranty period, he will be ordered to make sure that he stops finding so many, and only replaces the same number as other dealers.
A very detailed report is sent from corporate every month warning the dealer. It lists which parts and which services he sold differently than the other dealers.

Cite: a friend of a friend who is a data analyst. :slight_smile:

155

The point of data analysis like that isn’t to encourage dishonesty, it’s to look for potential fraud. If one shop is replacing 10% more belts than the statistical average range, it suggests someone is filling false claims as a means of padding the books or lining their pockets.

If someone is replacing 10% fewer belts than the lower end if the statistical average range, they are going to be curious how that shop is so lucky it doesn’t see the same number of belt issues. Why are they so successful? Is it something that can be replicated, or is it a sign of shoddy performance?

I work retail, and we have similar analysts going over all sorts of numbers for our success as a store. They analyze all sorts of metrics to look for fraud and waste and loss of value. I’ve had conversations with people regarding my actions and if I was properly following protocol to minimize loss of value in disposing of bad products. We’ve had associates fired because home office identified theft based on data patterns, verified by video review.

If someone is using that to justify doing fewer repairs that are actually needed, then they are distorting what the process is for. “Who watches the watchmen?”, and all that.

156

Did I miss what the resolution in the OP was?

157

one huge advantage of “Brand” mechanics is - they get to know the misc. models of the Brand by heart and know what are typical problems and areas to look out to with extra care by model and year — e.g. the Ford Powershift debacle ( https://www.fordproblems.com/powershift/ )

they might even find problems before they manifest themselves … (and I mean that in a non-cynical way :wink: )

158

The point of data analysis like that is to maximize corporate profits. Everything else are “fringe benefits”

159

And encouraging fraud does not protect corporate profits.

160

I’m an Audi owner. My local dealership’s service department is designed to extract maximum cash, not fix problems.

I “have a guy”, in that I have a local independent shop that has been servicing my vehicles for almost 30 years. In that time, they’ve demonstrated that they are willing to “act against interest” in dealing with their customers (recommending against replacement when it is not needed, letting me know when something is covered by warranty so I should take it to the dealer, etc.).

Last year, my A/C went out (just blowing warm air). Took it to my guy, who noted that the refrigerant was out, did a leak check and couldn’t find any leaks, refilled the A/C (~$250, cost of refrigerant was about $100/lb, which will be important later). A few weeks later it was blowing warm air again, so I took it back and they did a more thorough leak check, even keeping the car overnight so they could check with the engine cold. Couldn’t find the leak but they tightened whatever they could, refilled the refrigerant and sent me on my way (no charge). Sure enough, a few weeks later, it’s blowing warm. I take the car in, and they ask if they can have it for a couple of days. They have an A/C guy they use, but he’s only available certain days. I leave the car, and they call me few days later. Their guy has done everything he can and believes that the problem is the evaporator.

The problem is that the evaporator is deep inside the dash of the car, so replacing it requires taking the entire dash out and then putting it back in, which then requires full recalibration of the dash electronics. My guy says this would probably be around $1200-1500, but they can’t do this because they stand behind all their repairs and they can’t guarantee the electronics recalibration, which they have no expertise in. (a less scrupulous mechanic could have just done the replacement and hoped the electronics worked out). Their advice is to take it to the dealer. Further, they advise me that I shouldn’t let the dealer know the full gory details, just that I took it to an independent mechanic, that they advised me that it was the evaporator, and they couldn’t do the job.

So, I take the car to the dealer, let them know what I’ve been told. They take it in for “full twenty-point inspection” (which I had done at my guys shop a few months earlier). Cost $250 plus cost of refilling the refrigerant (cost: ~$450/lb) and they can’t find anything wrong, so they send me on my way (no they did not check the evaporator, because checking something that deep in the dash is a lot of work). A few weeks later, it’s blowing warm again, so I take it back in. They keep it for a day and let me know that they’ve found a bad valve that is the source of the leak and replacement will be $1500, but they are going to discount it to $1200 (googling I found that one of the things a bad evaporator can cause is failure of this valve). What could I do? I said fix it and picked up the “repaired” car.

A few weeks later…you can’t be surprised, can you? It’s blowing warm again, I take the car back to the dealer and they take it for a day and call me an let me know that they’ve identified the evaporator as the problem! The evaporator is subject to an extended warranty due to known problems, so even though my car is long out of the standard warranty period, it will be replaced under warranty (is the light dawning folks?). A few days later, I get my car back and there have been no problems with the A/C since then.

So, let me count the ways. They jobbed me for a full inspection the car didn’t need even though I had brought it in for a specific problem, charged me a 4X markup on refrigerant (over standard markup- the refrigerant is ~$30/lb retail, standard shop markup is to $100-120), charged me for a valve replacement that may not have been needed (the valve in question is right out in the open in the engine compartment, so the fact that no leak was found prior is suspicious), and generally extended the amount of time I was without the car.

But they always had very nice videos they sent me (which is how I could see that the “bad valve” was easily leak tested). And now they send me emails and texts asking what they need to do to win my service business!