Sorry if I’m repeating something… but I haven’t seen anything in the Great Debates (although I suspect BBQ forum has something). (I’ve been following the news only occassionaly since I’m on a short vacation and away from home. So somethings I say might be wrong.)
I’d just like to add that I’m a bit sad about the “you’re being skimpy” regarding donations to the Tsunami relief efforts directed at some countries and the US especially.
These donations drives have seemingly become a pissing contest about who is giving the most… and to me it seems that money won’t save that many people in the affected areas as opposed to material and timely aid. The US and others might be accused of delaying… but to “demand” that richer countries give more or comparatively more kind of takes away the “charity” aspect. Somehow it seems inapropiate… even if the US and Bush were being a bit skimpy. Though I was quite amused by the comment by an american politician about spending US$ 35 million in Iraq before breakfast. (Internal criticism being more appropiate).
So I’m happy to see so many giving to help the Tsunami… american or otherwise. Especially private donations. Well now to the debate topic. Seeing the criticism to American sluggish and “skimpy” response to the disaster… it struck me that the US has a more or less big fleet in the areas that would be far more useful to reach those far off and isolated places. I’d rather americans kept their money and used those useless (outside of war) military resources and choppers to give those first and critical food and medical supplies. Fleets have huge fuel and food supplies to last them months on end… they could also help take those resources from big airports to the small villages where they are needed.
Especially now that international aid efforts are jamming up the airports in the capitals and that roads are still blocked or jammed as well. I saw some news reports about US military helicopters delivering food… but that was only yesterday. Why weren’t they availabe during those critical first days ? How useful are choppers and the US fleets to the relief efforts ? (I would imagine a lot.) In a month roads and other transport should be back up… and then the isolated villages and town can get regular supply I suppose. I would think that a US fleet would be the perfect help to the current disaster… especially the way the damage was widespread.
I saw some news reports about US military helicopters delivering food… but that was only yesterday. Why weren’t they availabe during those critical first days ?
Because they had to be mobilized from distant locations and either flown in or transported to the affected areas, along with the necessary support equipment such as fuel containers, maintenance personnel and spares, air traffic control equipment, etc. The first US military equipment diverted to the area, I believe, were a group of six C-130 transports, promised, IIRC, the day after the disaster; this is as it should be, as they could get into the affected areas much faster and carry far more cargo than even heavy-lift helicopters.
US Marine V-22 tilt-rotor aircraft would be just about ideal for this application, but I have no idea whether any of the few avaialable have ever been deployed outside the US.
Because even if US military aircraft were immediately available in large numbers in the affected countries (and this was not the case) there would have been nothing to deliver. It has taken several days for more than token relief supplies to be delivered to staging areas where they could be transferred into the hardest-hit locations.
There are other bureaucratic details, such negoatiating overflight rights (these are assets of a foreign military, after all), but I see nothing in recent coverage that suggest the US military has been dragging its feet in this regard.
Which is exactly being done. It will take time, however. I just got done watching a CNN report on the relief effort in Indonesia, and there was video clip that showed a US Navy Blackhawk, clearly with little in the way of supplies on board, that had set down near a destroyed town and was imnmediately swarmed by dozens of agitated people, to the point where both the crew and the people on the ground were at risk. Maybe deliveries by air drop or as underslung loads released from the hover might be a better strategy until people calm down a little.
I agree, all of this cash is like telling someone stuck on the side of Mt. Everest that we’ve written them a huge check for their troubles and they can come down and cash it anytime they like. Hopefully, the money will be put to good use in rebuilding, however. But at any rate, I think that the military is moving as quickly as humanly possible to move aid supplies into the region, but really any helicopter or other point-of-need delivery device can’t fly all of the way from the United States to Indonesia and drop off food. It needs to be transported there, and once there, it needs a place to land and be refueled, maintained (helicopters need a lto), and reloaded with supplies. I think that our contribution of two aircraft carrier groups will be among the most useful if they arrive quickly, but I haven’t heard of where they are positioned and how long it will take for them to arrive in the Indian ocean.
I saw the same video about a Blackhawk and the rush to get those supplies… but that was the only indication of US military participation.
Don’t the US have a carrier fleet in the Area ? These fleets would have a quite generous supply of helicopters and supplies. Nothing has to be flown from the US… Diego Garcia is a huge staging area for americans in Iraq… they have supplies a plenty too.
The US response in terms of military and logistical assistance to this has been exemplary. As have several other countries: Israel is being particularly impressive, as is the UK, as well as India in its assistance to Sri Lanka.
The Abraham Lincoln, now on the scene in Indonesia, has a complement of 12 Seahawk (navalized Blackhawk) helicopters, all of which are apparently in use.
But would Diego have large numbers of helicopters and their crews sitting around, ready to deploy on amoment’s notice? I doubt it. Why would large numbers of helicopters be based on an island hundreds of miles from anywhere?
Note that the island apparently is some 2100 miles from Sumatra, the hardest-hit area. 2100 miles over open ocean in any helicopter type seems a bit of a stretch, so assuming that they are available on Diego (and I doubt that they are) they would have to be transported (several days by sea) or be capable of refueling by air. If they were flown immediately to the disaster area, they would still have to wait for their support personnel and equipment to catch up with them, so chances are it would take a few days to gear up for operations no matter what.
As pointed out previously, the US appears to be doing precisely what you suggested in your OP, so I really don’t know what you are driving at here. Are you trying to say the US military is deliberately holding back aid, trying to save fuel, behaving incompetently or what? If any of the above is what you are arguing, do you contend that this is something unique to the US, or to any of the other countries involved in the relief effort?
What about the support fleet ? The cruisers and frigates ? Only 12 choppers for a fleet ?
Diego was only about having supplies close by… ships could ressuply and ferry supplies to Sumatra in a matter of days. (Assuming that the fleet supplies would be used quickly for the survivors.)
I don’t know how quickly those efforst were put into place… from the outside media based perspective it certainly seems like it took a while. My main point though was that I’d rather have those choppers and supplies helping out sooner rather than some cash flush to help later. If the US were invading Sumatra or some other stricken place there would be tons of supplies on the ground by Day 2-3. The US has the means (as well as money of course) … while other countries can only mostly dispense supply laden planes and cash, which end up in jammed up airports far from the needy.
If the US were invading Sumatra, there would have been six months of work making sure that supplies could be delivered 3 days after the troops landed. Look, the US military is good at getting supplies to where they are needed, and is doing a pretty damn good job of doing so right now. How quickly, exactly, are they supposed to be able to work? What would have been a fast enough response that the US was not chastised for her slowness in providing aid?
In other words: No, country-on-the-complete-other-side-of-the-world, your donation (which you weren’t compelled to give out of anything but a general sense of goodwill) isn’t ENOUGH. DO BETTER. I mean, seriously. One aircraft carrier, 12 helicopters, four other ships, thousands of soldiers and three-hundred-fifty MILLION dollars? Are you kidding me? How piddly. You might as well have stayed home.
Look, we pre-plan our invasions. This wasn’t on our calendar. We are and will be deploting as much immediate aid in the form of military assistance as soon as humanly possible. The problem still seems to lie in end-point distribution. Aid is even piling up on Sumatra and Sri Lanka in the airports, but it’s still distribution that’s problematic.
I’m not chastizing the US… but more the financial aid being the measure of help when other means are obviously seem more useful at the moment. The US having a large military capability seems more apt to help in remote areas.
Last I heard Brazil has sent 3 cargo planes… and this food and medical aid must be piling up in some major asian airport like all the rest. Soon the food being donated by civilians will also pile up too.
Those Marine disembarking ships could be good for dropping supplies too no ?
(BTW Diego Garcia escaped the Tsunami due to a deep trench running near it… or so the link given before said… lucky lucky…)
BTW, the US has pledged $350 million dollars. I’m not sure this counts as “you’re being skimpy” especially since this is only what the government is giving in direct aid (it doesn’t count those military assets we were talking about)…it doesn’t count private donations which probably would double the figure. I know my wife’s church has sent food, aid, money AND volunteers to the region…and are putting together donations for more of all of the above. And thats one small Catholic church in New Mexico.
Look, the entire world is responding well to this crisis. The major nations in the world are sending what they can fast and evaluating what the needs of the people in the region are…and the aide proposed so far and sent so far is the tip of the iceberge. Its nuts to say that America and Americans are being ‘skimpy’ with their aide.
What with? They don’t have a navy (for various very interesting historical and conventional reasons) and no one in hell is going to let a Chinese military convoy stick around very long. After all, they ARE in China’s backyard. :-p
Are they going to drive down to the local Wally mart, plop down a fifty spot, and say, “Load me up with some fresh water, a new hut, a $2.89 bottle of pickles, and one of dem’ ‘Insta-Tsunami Walls’?” Certainly the financial donations will be an extremely important factor in the long-term rebuilding of the country, but it just won’t do anything right now. If you were stuck mid-face on Mt. Everest in a blizzard, would you want a helicopter to pick you off or hand off a check for $1,000,000 and tell you good luck?